Michael Jouravlev wrote:
On 3/27/06, Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, your taste is questionable. You guys think that Struts 1.x is good
code. The Struts developers don't even think that.
Struts 1.x sucks compared to WebWork 2, I think everybody got it.
Actually, you are not the first who is saying this. Jason kept
preaching this matra for at least two years already, we got used to
this ;-)
Well, Michael, there's a saying that goes something like this:
"When the pope tells you there's a God, he's just doing his job. When he
comes out and says there is no God, then maybe he's on to something."
If Jason and Patrick and other Webwork people sing the praises of
Webwork, they are also just "doing their job". It's hardly surprising.
Also, if the Struts people say Struts is great and work on Struts, that
is hardly worthy of much comment either.
However, when the Struts developers say they don't want to work on the
Struts codebase any more and just bring in the Webwork codebase and work
on that, well... this, unlike the previous cases, is really a rather
interesting invent, maybe not quite so much as the pope declaring
himself an atheist. But I can say that when I heard about the
Struts/Webwork thing it came as a great surprise to me.
It has some clear implications too. No matter how you shake it, the two
things were technical *competitors*. Normally, the Struts people should
be about as happy to say that Webwork is better as to have a tooth
pulled. So if they say it...
But also, it leads to the question of why Struts was not able to stay
competitive with Webwork. Struts development clearly did stagnate. There
is no getting around this.
I got into this whole discussion originally by making certain comments
about open-source project management practices. I was actually then
shocked by the rather know-it-all tone of people like Craig McClanahan
and Ted Husted. Both simply responded to these questions as in: "Here at
ASF, we do it like this". I wrote a moderately sharp response, first to
Craig here:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.user/123265
It has been suggested that this was an example of me being extremely
rude to Craig. I have reread the message and I don't think so. While it
may cause people discomfort, it is perfectly legitimate and reasonable
to suggest that people who themselves failed to keep their project
up-to-date with the state of the art, should take a much more humble
approach to these questions. That was the overall thrust of the message
I have link above. The above-linked message was a reasoned reply that
was not the kind of rabid froth-at-the-mouth personal attack like I got
subjected to subsequently.
I think what would be really educational, is comparing WebWork 2 and
Stripes. I think they are quite comparable. If WebWork was started in
attempt to improve Struts, then Stripes was started in attempt to
improve both Struts and WebWork. Are WebWork 2 and Stripes both "good
code"?
Well, as I said, that the Struts developers decline to work on their
codebase and bring in Webwork has some inescapable implications about
the relative quality of those 2 things. It has been accepted basically
that Webwork is better. However, those aren't the only two such
projects. There are actually lots of web application frameworks. Some of
them could well be better than Webwork. Have you evaluated Stripes yourself?
Oh, and by the way, Michael, in your opinion, why did Struts development
stagnate?
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
Michael.
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