1) Pom needs to be simplified, made better, more understandable, a real meta-model of the project, with orthogonal information, … Users should have a mental model of the POM, and not of plugins and executions and what not.
2) Clear up the use (top-feature!) of ${} thingies. Currently, these are ant/velocity-style "variables" or "properties", and nobody knows which exist and which don't. In practice, they certainly don't mimic the POM. In essence, this should be replaced with an EL like Commons EL or OGNL, or maybe even more simple, by XPATH.
3) Inheritance: the strange self-referencing issue that the parent POM is, aside from being a POM to inherit from, also the POM of the pom-project, is wildly confusing. A pom-project should have a POM with meta-information, and a different POM to inherit from in src/main/pom or something. The latter is the project content, and not the meta-information.
4) More to come …
On the other hand, maven (2) is so good in concept, that once the necessary (parent) setup is done for your project/group/company, you never have to look at it again. So, the confusion is limited.
On 21 Dec 2005, at 11:10, Brett Porter wrote:
I think I was largely misunderstood. I didn't say there aren't any<x-tad-smaller>Met vriendelijke groeten,
problems, but I thought the claim that its not production ready needed
a little clarification.
The lack of forking was a big mess. It was supposed to be done within
a matter of days after the release, but for a number of reasons this
wasn't finished until recently. But it is there now - perhaps there
are still issues to work through, but that's on the way at least.
For everything else you talk about - how much did Maven 1 actually do
for you, and how much did you write in a Jelly script leveraging Ant?
What's stopping you writing Maven 2 plugins to do that now?
What I'm really trying to do here is investigate what is actually
blocking people. The marking of importance in JIRA, and previously the
amount of voting was pretty useless. I think these need to be improved
so we can focus because there are such a large number of things to
deal with.
This is much more productive than general statements about whether the
release is "production ready", because production is different for
everyone, and obviously we wouldn't have released it if we didn't
think it was ready for production use. Certainly not perfect, but
usable nonetheless. Even you voted for the release, Vincent :)
- Brett
On 12/21/05, Vincent Massol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I do agree it's mostly about the plugins.
That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's still
not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but
they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was "solved"
last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to
investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of the
Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still open),
last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not able to
validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: the
assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus I
cannot get a jarjar created automatically.
Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully
working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from
scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm
not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where
most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for
their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the
2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm
doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works).
That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's
the gap with what you want to achieve in your build.
All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't
go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying.
Thanks
-Vincent
-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this.
If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every
chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you.
I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of
plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project),
that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to
upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that
are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site
generation, which is being worked on right now.
I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't
recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in
JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 -
none of which are under discussion here).
Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts
within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot
about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading.
Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says
it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on
improving that experience.
Cheers,
Brett
On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been
working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At
this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time.
It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and
in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so
hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I
doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the
timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to
finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along
the way).
..David..
-----Original Message-----
From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi Everyone,
Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that
"maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly).
- When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1?
- Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production?
I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon.
Regards,
Rik Bosman
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