All: I think we need a platform for making the payments to the NB development --something like crowdsource but independent of any other platform to eliminate the fees and costs. I for one will be willing to make monthly dollar contributions. NB is too good of a platform to let it go under due to internal issues.
> Geertjan and All -- > > Not a problem! To whom and where should the check be sent? > > -- Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > To: Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> > Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, John Mc > <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com>, Netbeans Mailing List > <users@netbeans.apache.org>, Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, > Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com>, > bmelen...@hemstech.com > Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:22:45 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment > > Sure! If youâre not willing/able to participate in NetCAT yourself: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0 > > ...would you be interested in sponsoring others to do so, at say $50 per > person per NetCAT test spec? > > Gj > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 20:01, Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> wrote: > >> Thomas and All -- >> >> Mine is much the same story. Would there be some way to contribute >> $$$ >> (or, in my case, $$) to the team meaningfully? >> >> -- Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> >> To: John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> >> Cc: Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, bmelen...@hemstech.com, Geertjan >> Wielenga <geert...@apache.org>, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, >> Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Netbeans Mailing List < >> users@netbeans.apache.org> >> Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> >> My $.02, >> Iâve been benefitting from NB since I moved over from Visual Cafe in >> 1999 >> (to give you an idea of what a Java dinosaur I am). And my only >> contributions in 2+ decades have been bug reports (most of which now lie >> forgotten somewhere in the bowels of the old Bugzilla system) and 1-2 >> NetCAT participations. I have always been willing to pay for this >> excellent tool but never had the desire (or time) to improve it myself. >> In the early days, I once downloaded it with the faint hope of >> correcting >> a minor bug - but didnât even succeed in building it. For me at >> least, >> the time it takes to get high enough on the learning curve to contribute >> meaningfully is more than I have been willing to invest (maybe thatâll >> change after I retire in a few years). >> >> But like I said, Iâve always been more than happy to pay for the tool. >> I >> wonder if itâs too late for NB to introduce such an >> alternative/additional >> model? Just a thought. >> >> Best regards, >> Tom >> >> >> > On Mar 13, 2020, at 9:51 AM, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >  >> > But instead of looking at this financial payment, why not consider an >> time/effort payment? >> > >> > At present, I cant really talk, I've been busy, and have provided >> anything back to NetBeans in a while but then I don't have any issues >> that >> are negatively effecting me. If and when I do I will hopefully try to >> address them, like I have tried to in the past. >> > >> > The way I see it, if we could find out what exactly is blocking people >> from moving to 11.3/12, and then if they can spend even a small amount >> of >> time/effort into looking at these we can get to an even better NetBeans >> product. >> > >> > John >> > >> >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 13:34, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net> >> wrote: >> >> Agreed, NetBeans is worth paying for.... >> >> >> >> I am with Bill, I have not upgraded and I am at 9 similar to 8. >> >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: bmelen...@hemstech.com [mailto:bmelen...@hemstech.com] >> >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:30 AM >> >> To: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> >> >> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>; Paul Szudzik < >> pszud...@throwarock.com>; Netbeans Mailing List >> <users@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> >> >> >> All: >> >> >> >> Been reading all the emails on the NB migration. I do JAVA on NB >> 8.0.2 >> platform and have not upgraded due to the issues being address. I do >> okay >> with the NB 8. If this is so critical for getting program done for >> clients, >> then one should be willing to pay for the platform. See it as a business >> expense and write it off at tax time. Normally, tools are included in >> the >> cost of a job -so I'm miffed as to the expectations placing the onus on >> NB >> development to resolve things at no cost. NB is a great platform and >> this >> is merely a transitional period for it, so I stay with my current >> platform >> and wait until the dust settles --or pay for the upgrade with support if >> my >> situation changes. While NB has many issues, it will eventually resolve >> the >> main ones or become a dust covered relic with passing memories. >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. >> And, >> >> > indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of >> >> > Gradle, then a lot of modern options start closing off to you. >> >> > >> >> > But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the >> >> > chickens have come home to roost: a free and open source project, >> such >> >> > as NetBeans, should never simply have been 'used', it should always >> >> > have been invested in. For example, simply filing a bug and hoping >> >> > someone will turn up to fix it has never been the way open source >> is >> >> > meant to work. >> >> > >> >> > Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding how >> >> > NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for >> >> > example, and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for >> you). >> >> > Not spending anything at all and hoping things will work out for >> you >> >> > has never been a sustainable approach. >> >> > >> >> > Gjj >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold >> <emilian.b...@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with >> JavaFX: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?&architecture=x86-64-b >> >> >> it&package=jdk-fx >> >> >> >> >> >> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like >> >> >> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo. >> >> >> >> >> >> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's >> too >> >> >> much people can customize... >> >> >> >> >> >> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could >> >> >> always be better. >> >> >> >> >> >> --emi >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik >> <pszud...@throwarock.com >> > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception. I am retired >> now, >> >> >> but >> >> >> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was >> an >> >> >> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, >> >> >> Eclipse product. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my >> >> >> > products, >> >> >> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross >> >> >> platform capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows. >> >> >> Raspberry Pi, no problem. Windows, no problem. I loved it. Then >> >> >> boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start >> >> >> having major problems. It gets harder and harder to use NetBeans >> with >> >> >> itââ¬â¢s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through >> hoops every >> >> >> single time we upgrade. I have a ton of projects that are a major >> >> >> pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get >> to >> >> >> work. And I am still not sure I can do this anymore. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect >> for >> >> >> > well >> >> >> over 53+ years. I have see many systems come and go, many IDE >> rise >> >> >> and fall, many languages surface and crash. The move to Maven is >> >> >> beyond my scope now. I want to program, not to have to regenerate >> >> >> and rehash my build system every release. I have tried to move >> over >> >> >> to 11, and mostly failed. I have too many modules and programs in >> play to hack this out. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless >> transition >> >> >> > , >> >> >> built in conversions for old projects to current format. >> Seriously, >> >> >> I would love to be on that train. But nope, it seems too much >> >> >> handholding and dancing. I currently have a half dozen active >> >> >> Betaââ¬â¢s that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 >> scenario, that >> >> >> I want to port into NetBeans >> >> >> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really donââ¬â¢t believe that it is >> 1: Easy, >> 2: >> >> >> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not >> resolved. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about >> >> >> compatibility. ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... ) I see >> how >> >> >> once the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off >> is >> >> >> almost impossible. If youââ¬â¢re new to NetBeans, perhaps this >> is a >> >> >> good trend. >> >> >> If >> >> >> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more >> than >> >> >> just an annoyance. It almost easier to find another IDE to settle >> in >> >> >> on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably >> more, >> >> >> from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer >> old >> >> >> projects to Maven.. Iââ¬â¢d rather develop and code than mess >> around >> >> >> with trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore.. >> >> >> Coding is fun, transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to >> JavaFX, >> I >> >> >> like the layouts, I like what Gluon has done, I like the look and >> >> >> feel. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > NetBeans 8 ââ¬â> NetBeans 11+ ââ¬â> convert ... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel >> that >> I >> >> >> > am >> >> >> now progressing backwards... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA >> >> HEMS Technology >> >> www.hemstech.com >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez >> >> bmelen...@hemstech.com >> >> 817-932-0047 >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA HEMS Technology www.hemstech.com www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez bmelen...@hemstech.com 817-932-0047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
