> So let’s have all these laudables contribute to CoolBeans (put that page back > up Emilian and link to it in this thread) and then let’s have CoolBeans use > that pile if cash to sponsor NetCAT 12.0 participation!
First, I assume the bellow was written in jest: > $50 per person per NetCAT test spec I see there are about 200 test specs according to https://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy/client/app/#/specifications so is anybody really donating such substantial sums of money? Note that for CoolBeans (now OpenBeans, heh), I would have charged money via my company. Then paid a salary to me or cover other project expenses. I don't have a foundation that could give cash grants to external individuals. Even so, I suspect just drafting the legal paperwork for such a situation and clearing things up with the accountant would cost more than the actual donations. --emi On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:34 PM Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> wrote: > > So let’s have all these laudables contribute to CoolBeans (put that page back > up Emilian and link to it in this thread) and then let’s have CoolBeans use > that pile if cash to sponsor NetCAT 12.0 participation! > > Gj > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 21:28, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> You guys are laudable! >> >> Back in late 2018 when I launched CoolBeans I also put up a store page >> as I imagined it was possible to get paid working on NetBeans codebase >> itself. (BTW, no third party can sell "NetBeans" since it's an Apache >> trademark!) >> >> Incorporated entities did use CoolBeans but not once bought a license! >> I did get a formal request via SoftChoice (aka procurement) which >> involved a lot of back and forth and changes before they could buy >> exactly 0 licenses. >> >> I also tried paying for features myself via bounties >> https://www.openbeans.org/bounties/ but nobody claimed one. >> >> Really curious what the conclusion of this talk is and what solution is >> found. >> >> My opinion is that there is no money in NetBeans (excluding some >> legacy Platform apps still going) and even when people want to pay >> other requirements are not met and the deal fails. >> >> It would be cool to have a Tomitribe for NetBeans, but... there is no >> market for IDE subscriptions. >> >> --emi >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 9:53 PM John G. Weed <nonsequi...@fastmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > I'd be more than happy to contribute some cash to the appropriately formed >> > company, either directly or in some form of licensing agreent. I'd also be >> > willing to offer some time, though my expertise is limited to c/c++. >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > >> > John .G Weed >> > Cicero Systems, LLC >> > "Reason. Resolve. Respond" >> > (571) 277-9998 >> > >> > "Steal a man's reputation for probity, and the more shrewd and clever he >> > is, the more hated and mistrusted he'll become." Marcus Tullius Cicero >> > (106BC-43BC) >> > >> > Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this electronic >> > transmission is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the >> > recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the >> > recipient(s) named above, or an authorized agent of such recipient(s) >> > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby >> > notified that you have received this electronic transmission in error. >> > Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this electronic >> > transmission including any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you >> > have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the >> > sender immediately. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, at 15:33, Thomas Wolf wrote: >> > >> > I'd be happy to contribute some personal money. To get my employer to >> > pay, it would have to take the form of something like an IDE license or >> > support license. Many engineers in my company use IntelliJ and the >> > company pays for those licenses - I don't see why they wouldn't pay for a >> > Netbeans "license" for me as long as they have an official place from >> > which to 'purchase' it. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Tom >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:22 PM Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Sure! If you’re not willing/able to participate in NetCAT yourself: >> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0 >> > >> > ...would you be interested in sponsoring others to do so, at say $50 per >> > person per NetCAT test spec? >> > >> > Gj >> > >> > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 20:01, Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> wrote: >> > >> > Thomas and All -- >> > >> > Mine is much the same story. Would there be some way to contribute $$$ >> > (or, in my case, $$) to the team meaningfully? >> > >> > -- Chris >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> >> > To: John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> >> > Cc: Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, bmelen...@hemstech.com, Geertjan >> > Wielenga <geert...@apache.org>, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, >> > Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Netbeans Mailing List >> > <users@netbeans.apache.org> >> > Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) >> > Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> > >> > My $.02, >> > I’ve been benefitting from NB since I moved over from Visual Cafe in 1999 >> > (to give you an idea of what a Java dinosaur I am). And my only >> > contributions in 2+ decades have been bug reports (most of which now lie >> > forgotten somewhere in the bowels of the old Bugzilla system) and 1-2 >> > NetCAT participations. I have always been willing to pay for this >> > excellent tool but never had the desire (or time) to improve it myself. >> > In the early days, I once downloaded it with the faint hope of correcting >> > a minor bug - but didn’t even succeed in building it. For me at least, >> > the time it takes to get high enough on the learning curve to contribute >> > meaningfully is more than I have been willing to invest (maybe that’ll >> > change after I retire in a few years). >> > >> > But like I said, I’ve always been more than happy to pay for the tool. I >> > wonder if it’s too late for NB to introduce such an alternative/additional >> > model? Just a thought. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Tom >> > >> > >> > > On Mar 13, 2020, at 9:51 AM, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > But instead of looking at this financial payment, why not consider an >> > > time/effort payment? >> > > >> > > At present, I cant really talk, I've been busy, and have provided >> > > anything back to NetBeans in a while but then I don't have any issues >> > > that are negatively effecting me. If and when I do I will hopefully try >> > > to address them, like I have tried to in the past. >> > > >> > > The way I see it, if we could find out what exactly is blocking people >> > > from moving to 11.3/12, and then if they can spend even a small amount >> > > of time/effort into looking at these we can get to an even better >> > > NetBeans product. >> > > >> > > John >> > > >> > >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 13:34, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net> wrote: >> > >> Agreed, NetBeans is worth paying for.... >> > >> >> > >> I am with Bill, I have not upgraded and I am at 9 similar to 8. >> > >> >> > >> Rob >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: bmelen...@hemstech.com [mailto:bmelen...@hemstech.com] >> > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:30 AM >> > >> To: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> >> > >> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>; Paul Szudzik >> > >> <pszud...@throwarock.com>; Netbeans Mailing List >> > >> <users@netbeans.apache.org> >> > >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> > >> >> > >> All: >> > >> >> > >> Been reading all the emails on the NB migration. I do JAVA on NB 8.0.2 >> > >> platform and have not upgraded due to the issues being address. I do >> > >> okay with the NB 8. If this is so critical for getting program done for >> > >> clients, then one should be willing to pay for the platform. See it as >> > >> a business expense and write it off at tax time. Normally, tools are >> > >> included in the cost of a job -so I'm miffed as to the expectations >> > >> placing the onus on NB development to resolve things at no cost. NB is >> > >> a great platform and this is merely a transitional period for it, so I >> > >> stay with my current platform and wait until the dust settles --or pay >> > >> for the upgrade with support if my situation changes. While NB has many >> > >> issues, it will eventually resolve the main ones or become a dust >> > >> covered relic with passing memories. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Bill >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. And, >> > >> > indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of >> > >> > Gradle, then a lot of modern options start closing off to you. >> > >> > >> > >> > But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the >> > >> > chickens have come home to roost: a free and open source project, such >> > >> > as NetBeans, should never simply have been 'used', it should always >> > >> > have been invested in. For example, simply filing a bug and hoping >> > >> > someone will turn up to fix it has never been the way open source is >> > >> > meant to work. >> > >> > >> > >> > Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding how >> > >> > NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for >> > >> > example, and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for you). >> > >> > Not spending anything at all and hoping things will work out for you >> > >> > has never been a sustainable approach. >> > >> > >> > >> > Gjj >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with >> > >> >> JavaFX: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?&architecture=x86-64-b >> > >> >> it&package=jdk-fx >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like >> > >> >> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's too >> > >> >> much people can customize... >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could >> > >> >> always be better. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> --emi >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com> >> > >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception. I am retired now, >> > >> >> but >> > >> >> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an >> > >> >> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, >> > >> >> Eclipse product. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my >> > >> >> > products, >> > >> >> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross >> > >> >> platform capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows. >> > >> >> Raspberry Pi, no problem. Windows, no problem. I loved it. Then >> > >> >> boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start >> > >> >> having major problems. It gets harder and harder to use NetBeans with >> > >> >> it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through hoops every >> > >> >> single time we upgrade. I have a ton of projects that are a major >> > >> >> pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to >> > >> >> work. And I am still not sure I can do this anymore. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for >> > >> >> > well >> > >> >> over 53+ years. I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise >> > >> >> and fall, many languages surface and crash. The move to Maven is >> > >> >> beyond my scope now. I want to program, not to have to regenerate >> > >> >> and rehash my build system every release. I have tried to move over >> > >> >> to 11, and mostly failed. I have too many modules and programs in >> > >> >> play to hack this out. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition >> > >> >> > , >> > >> >> built in conversions for old projects to current format. Seriously, >> > >> >> I would love to be on that train. But nope, it seems too much >> > >> >> handholding and dancing. I currently have a half dozen active >> > >> >> Beta’s that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that >> > >> >> I want to port into NetBeans >> > >> >> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, >> > >> >> 2: >> > >> >> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about >> > >> >> compatibility. ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... ) I see how >> > >> >> once the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is >> > >> >> almost impossible. If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this is a >> > >> >> good trend. >> > >> >> If >> > >> >> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more than >> > >> >> just an annoyance. It almost easier to find another IDE to settle in >> > >> >> on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably more, >> > >> >> from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old >> > >> >> projects to Maven.. I’d rather develop and code than mess around >> > >> >> with trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore.. >> > >> >> Coding is fun, transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, I >> > >> >> like the layouts, I like what Gluon has done, I like the look and >> > >> >> feel. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ... >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that I >> > >> >> > am >> > >> >> now progressing backwards... >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> >> >> > >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> > >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA >> > >> HEMS Technology >> > >> www.hemstech.com >> > >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez >> > >> bmelen...@hemstech.com >> > >> 817-932-0047 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > tjw...@gmail.com >> > http://landofwolf.blogspot.com/ >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
