Geertjan and All -- Not a problem! To whom and where should the check be sent?
-- Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> To: Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com>, Netbeans Mailing List <users@netbeans.apache.org>, Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com>, bmelen...@hemstech.com Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment Sure! If you’re not willing/able to participate in NetCAT yourself: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0 ...would you be interested in sponsoring others to do so, at say $50 per person per NetCAT test spec? Gj On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 20:01, Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> wrote: > Thomas and All -- > > Mine is much the same story. Would there be some way to contribute $$$ > (or, in my case, $$) to the team meaningfully? > > -- Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> > To: John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> > Cc: Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, bmelen...@hemstech.com, Geertjan > Wielenga <geert...@apache.org>, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, > Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Netbeans Mailing List < > users@netbeans.apache.org> > Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment > > My $.02, > I’ve been benefitting from NB since I moved over from Visual Cafe in 1999 > (to give you an idea of what a Java dinosaur I am). And my only > contributions in 2+ decades have been bug reports (most of which now lie > forgotten somewhere in the bowels of the old Bugzilla system) and 1-2 > NetCAT participations. I have always been willing to pay for this > excellent tool but never had the desire (or time) to improve it myself. > In the early days, I once downloaded it with the faint hope of correcting > a minor bug - but didn’t even succeed in building it. For me at least, > the time it takes to get high enough on the learning curve to contribute > meaningfully is more than I have been willing to invest (maybe that’ll > change after I retire in a few years). > > But like I said, I’ve always been more than happy to pay for the tool. I > wonder if it’s too late for NB to introduce such an alternative/additional > model? Just a thought. > > Best regards, > Tom > > > > On Mar 13, 2020, at 9:51 AM, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > But instead of looking at this financial payment, why not consider an > time/effort payment? > > > > At present, I cant really talk, I've been busy, and have provided > anything back to NetBeans in a while but then I don't have any issues that > are negatively effecting me. If and when I do I will hopefully try to > address them, like I have tried to in the past. > > > > The way I see it, if we could find out what exactly is blocking people > from moving to 11.3/12, and then if they can spend even a small amount of > time/effort into looking at these we can get to an even better NetBeans > product. > > > > John > > > >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 13:34, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net> wrote: > >> Agreed, NetBeans is worth paying for.... > >> > >> I am with Bill, I have not upgraded and I am at 9 similar to 8. > >> > >> Rob > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bmelen...@hemstech.com [mailto:bmelen...@hemstech.com] > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:30 AM > >> To: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > >> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>; Paul Szudzik < > pszud...@throwarock.com>; Netbeans Mailing List <users@netbeans.apache.org > > > >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment > >> > >> All: > >> > >> Been reading all the emails on the NB migration. I do JAVA on NB 8.0.2 > platform and have not upgraded due to the issues being address. I do okay > with the NB 8. If this is so critical for getting program done for clients, > then one should be willing to pay for the platform. See it as a business > expense and write it off at tax time. Normally, tools are included in the > cost of a job -so I'm miffed as to the expectations placing the onus on NB > development to resolve things at no cost. NB is a great platform and this > is merely a transitional period for it, so I stay with my current platform > and wait until the dust settles --or pay for the upgrade with support if my > situation changes. While NB has many issues, it will eventually resolve the > main ones or become a dust covered relic with passing memories. > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> > Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. And, > >> > indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of > >> > Gradle, then a lot of modern options start closing off to you. > >> > > >> > But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the > >> > chickens have come home to roost: a free and open source project, > such > >> > as NetBeans, should never simply have been 'used', it should always > >> > have been invested in. For example, simply filing a bug and hoping > >> > someone will turn up to fix it has never been the way open source is > >> > meant to work. > >> > > >> > Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding how > >> > NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for > >> > example, and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for you). > >> > Not spending anything at all and hoping things will work out for you > >> > has never been a sustainable approach. > >> > > >> > Gjj > >> > > >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with > JavaFX: > >> >> > >> >> > https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?&architecture=x86-64-b > >> >> it&package=jdk-fx > >> >> > >> >> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like > >> >> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo. > >> >> > >> >> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's too > >> >> much people can customize... > >> >> > >> >> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could > >> >> always be better. > >> >> > >> >> --emi > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com > > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception. I am retired now, > >> >> but > >> >> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was an > >> >> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, > >> >> Eclipse product. > >> >> > > >> >> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my > >> >> > products, > >> >> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross > >> >> platform capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows. > >> >> Raspberry Pi, no problem. Windows, no problem. I loved it. Then > >> >> boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start > >> >> having major problems. It gets harder and harder to use NetBeans > with > >> >> it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through hoops every > >> >> single time we upgrade. I have a ton of projects that are a major > >> >> pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get to > >> >> work. And I am still not sure I can do this anymore. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect for > >> >> > well > >> >> over 53+ years. I have see many systems come and go, many IDE rise > >> >> and fall, many languages surface and crash. The move to Maven is > >> >> beyond my scope now. I want to program, not to have to regenerate > >> >> and rehash my build system every release. I have tried to move over > >> >> to 11, and mostly failed. I have too many modules and programs in > play to hack this out. > >> >> > > >> >> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless transition > >> >> > , > >> >> built in conversions for old projects to current format. Seriously, > >> >> I would love to be on that train. But nope, it seems too much > >> >> handholding and dancing. I currently have a half dozen active > >> >> Beta’s that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, that > >> >> I want to port into NetBeans > >> >> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: Easy, > 2: > >> >> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release. > >> >> > > >> >> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not resolved. > >> >> > > >> >> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about > >> >> compatibility. ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... ) I see how > >> >> once the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off is > >> >> almost impossible. If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this is a > >> >> good trend. > >> >> If > >> >> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more > than > >> >> just an annoyance. It almost easier to find another IDE to settle > in > >> >> on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably more, > >> >> from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable. > >> >> > > >> >> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer old > >> >> projects to Maven.. I’d rather develop and code than mess around > >> >> with trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore.. > >> >> Coding is fun, transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to JavaFX, > I > >> >> like the layouts, I like what Gluon has done, I like the look and > >> >> feel. > >> >> > > >> >> > NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ... > >> >> > > >> >> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel that > I > >> >> > am > >> >> now progressing backwards... > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> >> > >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA > >> HEMS Technology > >> www.hemstech.com > >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez > >> bmelen...@hemstech.com > >> 817-932-0047 > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
