For whatever my two cents are worth, I agree. Sincerely,
John .G Weed Cicero Systems, LLC <http://www.cicerosystems.us/> *"Reason. Resolve. Respond"* (571) 277-9998 *"Steal a man's reputation for probity, and the more shrewd and clever he is, the more hated and mistrusted he'll become." *Marcus Tullius Cicero (106BC-43BC) *Confidentiality Notice:* The information contained in this electronic transmission is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the recipient(s) named above, or an authorized agent of such recipient(s) responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that you have received this electronic transmission in error. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this electronic transmission including any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately. On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, at 09:21, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > Indeed. > > It seems clear to me that we need something like what this is for TomEE: > tomitribe.com <https://www.tomitribe.com/> > > An entity outside Apache to support the development of NetBeans, e.g., look > at this company description, replace all "TomEE" with "NetBeans" and you have > what people in this thread are looking for, I believe: > > https://www.tomitribe.com/company/ > > Gj > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:07 PM <bmelen...@hemstech.com> wrote: >> All: >> >> I think we need a platform for making the payments to the NB development >> --something like crowdsource but independent of any other platform to >> eliminate the fees and costs. I for one will be willing to make monthly >> dollar contributions. NB is too good of a platform to let it go under due >> to internal issues. >> >> >> > Geertjan and All -- >> > >> > Not a problem! To whom and where should the check be sent? >> > >> > -- Chris >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> >> > To: Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> >> > Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, John Mc >> > <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com>, Netbeans Mailing List >> > <users@netbeans.apache.org>, Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, >> > Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com>, >> > bmelen...@hemstech.com >> > Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:22:45 -0400 (EDT) >> > Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> > >> > Sure! If you’re not willing/able to participate in NetCAT yourself: >> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0 >> > >> > ...would you be interested in sponsoring others to do so, at say $50 per >> > person per NetCAT test spec? >> > >> > Gj >> > >> > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 20:01, Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Thomas and All -- >> >> >> >> Mine is much the same story. Would there be some way to contribute >> >> $$$ >> >> (or, in my case, $$) to the team meaningfully? >> >> >> >> -- Chris >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> >> >> To: John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> >> >> Cc: Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, bmelen...@hemstech.com, Geertjan >> >> Wielenga <geert...@apache.org>, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>, >> >> Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Netbeans Mailing List < >> >> users@netbeans.apache.org> >> >> Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) >> >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> >> >> >> My $.02, >> >> I’ve been benefitting from NB since I moved over from Visual Cafe in >> >> 1999 >> >> (to give you an idea of what a Java dinosaur I am). And my only >> >> contributions in 2+ decades have been bug reports (most of which now lie >> >> forgotten somewhere in the bowels of the old Bugzilla system) and 1-2 >> >> NetCAT participations. I have always been willing to pay for this >> >> excellent tool but never had the desire (or time) to improve it myself. >> >> In the early days, I once downloaded it with the faint hope of >> >> correcting >> >> a minor bug - but didn’t even succeed in building it. For me at >> >> least, >> >> the time it takes to get high enough on the learning curve to contribute >> >> meaningfully is more than I have been willing to invest (maybe that’ll >> >> change after I retire in a few years). >> >> >> >> But like I said, I’ve always been more than happy to pay for the tool. >> >> I >> >> wonder if it’s too late for NB to introduce such an >> >> alternative/additional >> >> model? Just a thought. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Mar 13, 2020, at 9:51 AM, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > But instead of looking at this financial payment, why not consider an >> >> time/effort payment? >> >> > >> >> > At present, I cant really talk, I've been busy, and have provided >> >> anything back to NetBeans in a while but then I don't have any issues >> >> that >> >> are negatively effecting me. If and when I do I will hopefully try to >> >> address them, like I have tried to in the past. >> >> > >> >> > The way I see it, if we could find out what exactly is blocking people >> >> from moving to 11.3/12, and then if they can spend even a small amount >> >> of >> >> time/effort into looking at these we can get to an even better NetBeans >> >> product. >> >> > >> >> > John >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 13:34, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Agreed, NetBeans is worth paying for.... >> >> >> >> >> >> I am with Bill, I have not upgraded and I am at 9 similar to 8. >> >> >> >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: bmelen...@hemstech.com [mailto:bmelen...@hemstech.com] >> >> >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:30 AM >> >> >> To: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> >> >> >> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>; Paul Szudzik < >> >> pszud...@throwarock.com>; Netbeans Mailing List >> >> <users@netbeans.apache.org >> >> > >> >> >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment >> >> >> >> >> >> All: >> >> >> >> >> >> Been reading all the emails on the NB migration. I do JAVA on NB >> >> 8.0.2 >> >> platform and have not upgraded due to the issues being address. I do >> >> okay >> >> with the NB 8. If this is so critical for getting program done for >> >> clients, >> >> then one should be willing to pay for the platform. See it as a business >> >> expense and write it off at tax time. Normally, tools are included in >> >> the >> >> cost of a job -so I'm miffed as to the expectations placing the onus on >> >> NB >> >> development to resolve things at no cost. NB is a great platform and >> >> this >> >> is merely a transitional period for it, so I stay with my current >> >> platform >> >> and wait until the dust settles --or pay for the upgrade with support if >> >> my >> >> situation changes. While NB has many issues, it will eventually resolve >> >> the >> >> main ones or become a dust covered relic with passing memories. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. >> >> And, >> >> >> > indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of >> >> >> > Gradle, then a lot of modern options start closing off to you. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the >> >> >> > chickens have come home to roost: a free and open source project, >> >> such >> >> >> > as NetBeans, should never simply have been 'used', it should always >> >> >> > have been invested in. For example, simply filing a bug and hoping >> >> >> > someone will turn up to fix it has never been the way open source >> >> is >> >> >> > meant to work. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding how >> >> >> > NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for >> >> >> > example, and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for >> >> you). >> >> >> > Not spending anything at all and hoping things will work out for >> >> you >> >> >> > has never been a sustainable approach. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Gjj >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold >> >> <emilian.b...@gmail.com> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with >> >> JavaFX: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?&architecture=x86-64-b >> >> >> >> it&package=jdk-fx >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like >> >> >> >> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's >> >> too >> >> >> >> much people can customize... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They could >> >> >> >> always be better. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --emi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik >> >> <pszud...@throwarock.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception. I am retired >> >> now, >> >> >> >> but >> >> >> >> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that was >> >> an >> >> >> >> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, >> >> >> >> Eclipse product. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my >> >> >> >> > products, >> >> >> >> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross >> >> >> >> platform capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows. >> >> >> >> Raspberry Pi, no problem. Windows, no problem. I loved it. Then >> >> >> >> boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the mix, and NetBeans and I start >> >> >> >> having major problems. It gets harder and harder to use NetBeans >> >> with >> >> >> >> it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through >> >> hoops every >> >> >> >> single time we upgrade. I have a ton of projects that are a major >> >> >> >> pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to get >> >> to >> >> >> >> work. And I am still not sure I can do this anymore. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect >> >> for >> >> >> >> > well >> >> >> >> over 53+ years. I have see many systems come and go, many IDE >> >> rise >> >> >> >> and fall, many languages surface and crash. The move to Maven is >> >> >> >> beyond my scope now. I want to program, not to have to regenerate >> >> >> >> and rehash my build system every release. I have tried to move >> >> over >> >> >> >> to 11, and mostly failed. I have too many modules and programs in >> >> play to hack this out. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless >> >> transition >> >> >> >> > , >> >> >> >> built in conversions for old projects to current format. >> >> Seriously, >> >> >> >> I would love to be on that train. But nope, it seems too much >> >> >> >> handholding and dancing. I currently have a half dozen active >> >> >> >> Beta’s that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 >> >> scenario, that >> >> >> >> I want to port into NetBeans >> >> >> >> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is >> >> 1: Easy, >> >> 2: >> >> >> >> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not >> >> resolved. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about >> >> >> >> compatibility. ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... ) I see >> >> how >> >> >> >> once the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail off >> >> is >> >> >> >> almost impossible. If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this >> >> is a >> >> >> >> good trend. >> >> >> >> If >> >> >> >> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes more >> >> than >> >> >> >> just an annoyance. It almost easier to find another IDE to settle >> >> in >> >> >> >> on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably >> >> more, >> >> >> >> from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% transfer >> >> old >> >> >> >> projects to Maven.. I’d rather develop and code than mess >> >> around >> >> >> >> with trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore.. >> >> >> >> Coding is fun, transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to >> >> JavaFX, >> >> I >> >> >> >> like the layouts, I like what Gluon has done, I like the look and >> >> >> >> feel. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel >> >> that >> >> I >> >> >> >> > am >> >> >> >> now progressing backwards... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA >> >> >> HEMS Technology >> >> >> www.hemstech.com >> >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez >> >> >> bmelen...@hemstech.com >> >> >> 817-932-0047 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> > >> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> > >> > >> >> >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA >> HEMS Technology >> www.hemstech.com >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez >> bmelen...@hemstech.com >> 817-932-0047 >>
