NoOp, thanks very much for covering this so well. Apologies for the
dramatic snipping here, but it's gotten pretty hard to see the trees for
the forest!
NoOp wrote:
<snip -- Is malicious unsubscribe really a serious problem?>
Actually it would be more than annoying and create havoc across this
mail list.
I'll take your word for that. Guess I don't understand the hacker
mentality well enough.
<snip>
The fact that Chuck has someone that is forwarding emails from this list
to his sbcglobal.net account is not the problem of the users on this
list. It's a problem with him and whoever maliciously is forwarding the
emails to him.
Agreed. My concern was not really directed at Chuck's situation, just
trying to see how we can help those who may not really have good
solutions to the malicious subscription problem. If all somebody can do
is throw away unwanted messages after they have arrived, those whose
ISPs use metered traffic for determining payment, for instance, could
suffer.
It is however a problem of the list manager in that it has never been
easy to communicate with a live person/moderator/manager of this list.
For instance; there is _no_ obvious address/person/email that even we,
as valid subscribers to this list, can write to to complain about a
Chuck. Yes, we can also try to view the mailing list pages for some
contact information but in the end we'll not find one - I've not, and
I've been on this list since 2007 (I think).
Absolutely, not having an obvious and reliable way to get a human
involved was the reason for this thread in the first place. I'd be very
happy if things like contacting [EMAIL PROTECTED] (as
recommended in the users-help response) worked reliably.
Luckily I use gmane for this and many, many other lists, and wonder why
anyone still would use an actual email list subscription when they can
use a gmane or other nntp newsreader subscription instead.
In my case, at least -- inertia! I'm used to email but not to
newsreaders and haven't bothered to investigate that capability. Maybe
it's time.
<snip>
His sbcglobal.net account was not subscribed. All his messages went
through "moderator for users@openoffice.org" -- attempting to
unsubscribe that just got a message that it wasn't subscribed and
therefore couldn't be unsubscribed. I do kind of wonder why the
moderator let so many through, though.
Good point. Now can you find the information to complain to the list
moderator/adminstor... If you can I'll give you a gold star :-)
Well, there's [EMAIL PROTECTED] (maybe), and at least one
moderator ("Paul") has posted to the list, but I'd have to check the
archives to get his email. It might not be fair to poke him with this,
though, since he's probably neither the only moderator nor the list
owner. From what he said then, it didn't seem as if he had any special
connection for making or recommending changes in list management.
The point boils down to the fact that none of us, many have been here
for quite some time, even know how to complain regarding our own list.
It's a double-edged sword; there seems to be no
[EMAIL PROTECTED] type of address for those on the list to
report a Chuck (or others of recent), nor is there any such address for
the Chuck's of the world that have a problem with the OOo list and can't
seem to get out of the loop.
I seem to recall some logged issues regarding this but can't recall the
issue numbers. I'm sure that if you search the list for similar posts
we'll find previous posts by me, you, others regarding this same issue.
We'll also not find someone from OOo that has ever stepped up and waved
a hand saying "I'm the person resonsible for this list - if you have
problems contact me, and by the way, my project page is...).
Perhaps it's just time to get mad and demand that OOo provide a single
contact for this list. It's the largest and most obvious list on OOo for
both experienced and new users alike. Example:
http://www.openoffice.org/
http://support.openoffice.org/index.html
Users Mail List (Subscribe / Archives)
OpenOffice.org Project community support provided by a network of
hundreds of experienced users. You must be subscribed to post messages.
Love that "You must be subscribed..." -- wonder why they still say it,
when it hasn't been true for years, if ever?
Reminding users on this list that it was/is our desire to have posters
subscribe... but who was the fool that created that link without linking
first to a web page describing the lists, the fact that the subscriber
will receive emails from this list etc., etc?
I'll second that!
The rest of your response is appreciated, but snipped. It it _not_
advisable to have _any_ standard mail list forgo the appropriate
subscribe and unsubscribe checks that have been proven to be effective
over time. Those checks and balances have been put in place for a
reason; one reason is the malicious subscribe and unsubscribe of list
users.
Again, thanks for responding to this. I'm (almost) sorry I brought it
up, and I'm ready to scratch the idea, but the discussion has been
interesting. The most salient point is that the subscribe/unsubscribe
confirmation may be a link-click, and if so no playing with identities
would be needed for somebody like Chuck to use the indirect form to
unsubscribe the problem account. It's been a long time since I
subscribed, but I thought it took a reply from the subscribed account to
confirm. I notice we haven't heard from Chuck lately, so maybe he
finally got himself off the list!
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