Yup, no websites in java. Googlemail doesn't count. And german Telekom and Postbank are totally niche companies. :)
2009/2/18 Daniel Honig <daniel.ho...@gmail.com> > Ok...very late for me....Horrible post! > > But I do have some real points... let me bullet point > > > - dynamic language frameworks offer great but often overexaggerated > productivity ( dependent on lots of factors!) > - PHP does not mean you can hire less than talented folks and expect a > huge cost/productivity savings (Cake PHP has a learning curve too!) > - Open source ecosystem in Java blows away any other environment > - Django and Rails are great but cost of retraining is high > - You can't argue with folks who are beat up by the mistakes of java past > and refuse to look at the light at the end of the Java tunnel(groovy, > grails, scala) > - A skilled tap or wo team can likely meet or exceed the real cost/effort > level of a django/grails/php/rails team and leave a better system in > place > - Communicating with those who are lost in the hype of dynamic language > frameworks is difficult. > > > too late...too tired....but hope the bullet points make up for my previous > post. i think they are all points worth discussion. > > 2009/2/18 Daniel Honig <daniel.ho...@gmail.com> > > > Just tell him to go check out grails before he goes off and tries to > > re-invent the infrastructure in cake php. > > > > That being said once T5 is part of my migration path once I reach the > > limits of scalability from all the MOP overhead from dynamic language > > frameworks. > > In a perfect world, I'd write my domain in GORM and expose it to tapestry > > via some lightweight service layer.... > > > > But if your boss really wants to go and re-invent everything in Django or > > PHP it might just be a lost cause. > > > > You might want to point out that often the productivity gain is a a bit > of > > a shell game....In any of these languages you still need to hire good or > > great developers to get productivity. In dynamic frameworks you can't > keep > > a stable codebase unless you write good to great integration tests to > verify > > your execution paths are stable and not doing something crazy from > release > > to release.....IMHO, the productiviy gains from dynamic frameworks are a > bit > > overexaggerated......All of these frameworks have a learning > > curve.....Unless your boss wants a project delivered by a bunch of PHP > > script kids?.....It's a shell game.... > > > > Despite my love of grails, after working with grails for a year and a > > previous life that included lots of WO and T4 experience, I think there > is > > no reason that a talented agile Tap X team could not keep up with the > true > > productivity of any other framework. Full stop ;) > > > > The trouble is how do you bring communicate this effectively? > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Borut Bolčina <borut.bolc...@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> just want to share a piece of corporate mind set with you. > >> > >> My boss decided that none of the Java frameworks is productive in > >> comparison > >> to PHP, Ruby and Django and that there are no web sites written in any > >> Java > >> framework. Can you believe that? I would like to prove him wrong with > >> Tapestry Cayenne combo. Unfortunately I have no list of T5 success > >> stories. > >> > >> I am sorry for spamming, but I had to let the steam out! > >> > >> -Borut > >> > > > > >
