I think everyone should be allowed to use the tools they want to use......and I 
think
people should do what they are supposed to be doing.

Webdesigners/HTMLers should work on the templates and design and programmers on 
Java code.

Webdesigners should work with the tools they know and are familiar with....

I don't want programmers to Slice HTML and I don't want designers to compile 
Java code.....

But if design changes make it necessary to touch the Java code there is an 
error by design....


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:53:05 +0200
> Von: Martin Makundi <[email protected]>
> An: [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: Things I miss in Wicket

> All you need is a RAD IDE that co-operates well with the typesafe wicket.
> 
> **
> Martin
> 
> 2009/1/16 Tobias Marx <[email protected]>:
> > I think there already a lot of projects out there that try to optimize
> web-development in Java.
> > Instead of starting yet another project I think it would be better to
> find out which framework is most
> > flexible and has the best design architecture and philosophy and support
> this project.
> >
> > So far I have looked at Tapestry5 and Wicket.
> >
> > What I don't like about Tapestry is, that it is currently not possible
> to write web applications that allow you to "create webapplications",
> meaning that you can not read the "configuration" of a form from the database 
> and
> create all kinds of components dynamically. For example I wanted to
> implement an Admin page in which you can define custom fields (for a 
> configurable
> community website)...but this is not what Tapestry5 was designed for.
> >
> > What I don't like about Wicket is, that it is like writing normal Java
> applications - although rich clients applications are being replaced with
> web-based solutions and there is a fundamental difference between
> web-applications and normal java applications. If you have a java application 
> as a
> product, it is normal to employ software developers that work on bug fixes and
> new features all the time - they constantly develop and it is
> expensive....everything has to be done by a software developer.
> >
> > An ideal web-application is developed once and the Java code is never
> touched again for 3-5 years until there are a lot of new features
> necessary.... but in this time there could be several small changes or 
> complete
> re-designs...and in that time this should be a pure matter of HTMLing without 
> the
> need of touching the Java code. If a new input field is added or some new
> strings.....or whatever....or maybe a new Flash component etc....this
> should still work without changing the -war file that carries the Java
> code...only changes in the templates or the database should be made.
> >
> > Wicket does does not really allow this. Or assume you have a
> web-application you want to sell - and don't want the customer to know 
> Java....they
> would be really restricted in the changes that are possible.  Another
> advantage of Wicket is that it creates a session for every visitor - no matter
> whether it is a crawler/search engine that does not need a session or a logged
> in user....
> >
> > If there was a coding competition to write a web-application with as few
> lines of code as possibleI think Tapestry5 would win over Wicket. But with
> some changes in Wicket and some aspects of Tapestry5, this would be a lot
> better.
> >
> > What about merging Wicket and Tapestry? Similiar to Wicket with Tapestry
> templates----?
> >
> > So far most of my projects are still good old PHP code....stupid but
> efficient. It loads fast when you use file or memory based caching, you can
> always resolve any kind of bug within minutes and you never end up debugging
> for 5 days until you find out that it is not possible without any
> fundamental changes in the core of some Java framework you do not wish to 
> know in
> detail......
> >
> > So long...
> >
> > Toby
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >> Datum: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:08 -0500
> >> Von: Trevor Burnham <[email protected]>
> >> An: Tobias Marx <[email protected]>
> >> Betreff: Re: Things I miss in Wicket
> >
> >> Hi Toby,
> >>
> >> I've been considering creating a new project that would split away
> >> from Wicket, refine it and streamline it for similar reasons,
> >> particularly to reduce the number of lines of code that are needed for
> >> common use cases, to make things easier on designers, and to provide
> >> more seamless interoperability with other popular libraries (e.g.
> >> Spring). Do you think you might contribute to such a project? For now,
> >> I'm just testing to see if there's interest.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Trevor
> >>
> >> On Jan 15, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Tobias Marx wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi there!
> >> >
> >> > There are some things in Wicket I am missing and I think they could
> >> > improve the framework a lot.....
> >> >
> >> > But just some small background first:
> >> >
> >> > In my opinion the most important things in a web application are:
> >> >
> >> > - as few lines of code as possible, as many as really necessary
> >> >
> >> > - separation of design and web application code and logic
> >> >
> >> > - if a webapplication changes in the design or some small items are
> >> > added this should be possible without needing a java developer....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Therefore I would like to suggest more intelligent templates in
> >> > Wicket:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Pass parameters inside of wicket components eg:
> >> >
> >> > <div wicket:id="myComponent" paramA="blabla" paramB="blabla2"></div>
> >> >
> >> > and make them accessible in the Java code.
> >> >
> >> > This is  a way to customize and reuse components purely by editing
> >> > templates
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2. Make Strings/Labels accessible directly in templates....to avoid
> >> > redundant code like this:
> >> >
> >> > add(new Label("indexTitle", .....) and instead allow to add
> >> > properties directly.
> >> >
> >> > 3. Pick up components automatically without needing to add them in
> >> > the Java code:
> >> >
> >> > add(new LastPostsPanel("lastPostsPanel"));
> >> > add(new NewsPanel("newsPanel"));
> >> >
> >> > This could be matched automatically
> >> >
> >> > I think Wicket could be better without so much redundant copy&paste
> >> > code...by improving templates....
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for listening...
> >> >
> >> > Toby
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >
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