Great proposition ! I like it. I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save and continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time as they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they usually get the distinction quickly after that.
Regards, Denis 2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com>: > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xw...@crw.xyz> wrote: > > > Hi Caty, > > > > I am a fan of “B”. > > > > I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a > > preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the > > leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on > > the far right effectively “hides” the button. > > > > Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the > purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) > Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be > disabled from Administration - Editing. > Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the > thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So > there are all on a single bar in order to be compact. > > > > > > For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the > changelog > > and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am > > editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message > > anyway.) > > > > I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png > It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can > hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is > used/needed or not. > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > FWIW, taborder should be the following: > > > > 1. Edit input > > 2. Changelog input > > 3. Save button > > 4. Preview button > > 5. Cancel button > > 6. Autosave option > > > > My $0.02. :) > > > > Thanks, > > Craig > > > > > On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xw...@crw.xyz > > <mailto:crw+xw...@crw.xyz>> wrote: > > > > > >> Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions: > > >> > > >> No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save > and > > >> View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go > > farther > > >> and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That > > is > > >> the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is > > >> useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if > you > > >> are dropping Preview. > > >> > > >> FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a > > 1:1 > > >> translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing > > source, > > >> I can predict how it will look most of the time. :) > > >> > > >> I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. > If I > > >> had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be > > at > > >> the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by > > “Save > > >> and Continue." > > >> > > >> > > > This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some > > > usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, > > > stats are always hard to get by. > > > > > > Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not > lose > > > stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the > > > button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially > > > when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate. > > > > > > Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never > use > > > "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'. > > > > > > Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of > the > > > "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users). > > > > > > So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < > > http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the > > > past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/ > > UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png> > > > > > > Now let's see the heatmaps: > > > - Sandbox.WebHome: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> > > > - Sandbox.TestPage1: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> > > > - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png> > > > > > > From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after > is > > > "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". > > > Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by > first-time > > > users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the > > Preview > > > is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the > first > > > button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action. > > > > > > So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? > > > - var A [Save; Save & View]: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> > > > - var B [Save & View; Preview]: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> > > > - var C [Save & View; Save]: > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png> > > > > > > Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous > > view, > > > see > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png> > > > > > > I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have > > > visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use > it > > as > > > an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a > > static > > > position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are > best. > > > > > > My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was > that > > > WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I > > never > > > used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would > be > > > great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit > > > their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki > > needs > > > to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > >> Nice work! > > >> > > >> Craig > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > >> vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page > they > > >>> don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the > save > > >>> buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and > > some > > >>> users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. > > >>> > > >>> We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: > > >>> - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out > of > > >> the > > >>> viewport, see > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png > > >>> - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/after.png > > >>> - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, > auto-save), > > >> see > > >>> before: > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/before.png > > >>> after: > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png > > >>> > > >>> What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the > visibility > > of > > >>> the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should > > >> implement? > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Caty > > > > >
