On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Olivier Seres <ose...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Caty, > Thanks for this work! > We should also consider that there could be other options to be added in > the future, like "Allow realtime" radio button, or introduced by some > forecoming extensions > Ideal we could also remove options :) and make it more simpler :) On mobile the options will go on 2 rows, so we currently have this problems. Thanks, Caty > In order to avoid messing up the layout (in beeing be obliged to placing > the option in some weird places - like underneath because there is no other > options), it might be wise to think to an elegant design solution within > this bottom bar to take their growth into account. > Currently thinking to an unfolding menu, but I'm sure there are many other > ways. > > > > Olivier > > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The initial proposal was about the fixed bottom position. For that we will >> have https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14162 issue >> In order to have a bottom bar, we compacted the save options, for that we >> will have the https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14267 >> >> Thanks to everyone who responded in the survey. The results are available >> at >> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1DM74hlXQQ22WVdqhYbGWyITWXTH >> 5qgmKSMIrS3eHDKE/viewanalytics >> >> The proposal we will implement is >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisi >> bleSave/proposal9xCK.png >> >> Initially I wanted to remove some buttons and reduce their number, but the >> feedback was mixed, so this has been postponed, until we gather more usage >> data or feedback. >> >> Some conclusions: >> - "Save & View" received 12 votes as used most often. Since it's also an >> action that changes modes (takes the user to view) and is a final action, >> it will be marked with primary state (blue). >> - "Save" was also voted and voters were against remove it. Since it >> received 12 votes and is related to save, it will be the next action. We >> simplified the name from "Save&Continue" to "Save". >> - "Preview" received just 4 votes, but we consider this action to be >> directed towards newcomer users that need to be comfortable with their >> changes and be able to preview them. >> - "Cancel" was kept near the other actions in order to be consistent with >> the other layout we have across XWiki. It will be displayed outside of the >> button group. >> >> Thanks, >> Caty >> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Sorry. The link was https://goo.gl/forms/QyG5eOM44rBkd3qk2 >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> I've created this form to gather data about the buttons usage, in order >> >> to make a proposal for the buttons location >> >> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQwjxlFl321Ap97xKlYRcf >> -39wlG- >> >> cJXXqM1nududfjo3KHQ/viewanalytics >> >> >> >> Hope everyone is comfortable with Google Forms. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Caty >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Denis GERMAIN <dt.germ...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Great proposition ! I like it. >> >>> >> >>> I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can >> "save >> >>> and >> >>> continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first >> time >> >>> as >> >>> they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are >> still in >> >>> edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though >> they >> >>> usually get the distinction quickly after that. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Denis >> >>> >> >>> 2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> vali...@gmail.com >> >>> >: >> >>> >> >>> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xw...@crw.xyz> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > Hi Caty, >> >>> > > >> >>> > > I am a fan of “B”. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options >> above >> >>> on a >> >>> > > preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only >> >>> see the >> >>> > > leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting >> >>> Cancel on >> >>> > > the far right effectively “hides” the button. >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and >> that's >> >>> the >> >>> > purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) >> >>> > Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can >> >>> also be >> >>> > disabled from Administration - Editing. >> >>> > Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea >> of >> >>> the >> >>> > thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is >> small. So >> >>> > there are all on a single bar in order to be compact. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the >> >>> > changelog >> >>> > > and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I >> am >> >>> > > editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog >> >>> message >> >>> > > anyway.) >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I >> have is >> >>> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png >> >>> > It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile >> we >> >>> can >> >>> > hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify >> what >> >>> is >> >>> > used/needed or not. >> >>> > >> >>> > Thanks, >> >>> > Caty >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > > FWIW, taborder should be the following: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > 1. Edit input >> >>> > > 2. Changelog input >> >>> > > 3. Save button >> >>> > > 4. Preview button >> >>> > > 5. Cancel button >> >>> > > 6. Autosave option >> >>> > > >> >>> > > My $0.02. :) >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Thanks, >> >>> > > Craig >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> >>> > > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Hi, >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright < >> crw+xw...@crw.xyz >> >>> > > <mailto:crw+xw...@crw.xyz>> wrote: >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > >> Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions: >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus >> >>> “Save >> >>> > and >> >>> > > >> View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I >> would go >> >>> > > farther >> >>> > > >> and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this >> case). >> >>> That >> >>> > > is >> >>> > > >> the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue >> >>> editing) is >> >>> > > >> useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. >> Especially >> >>> if >> >>> > you >> >>> > > >> are dropping Preview. >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is >> >>> not a >> >>> > > 1:1 >> >>> > > >> translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am >> >>> editing >> >>> > > source, >> >>> > > >> I can predict how it will look most of the time. :) >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other >> >>> buttons. >> >>> > If I >> >>> > > >> had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” >> >>> would be >> >>> > > at >> >>> > > >> the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very >> >>> distantly by >> >>> > > “Save >> >>> > > >> and Continue." >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > > This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to >> have >> >>> some >> >>> > > > usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently >> >>> hosted, >> >>> > > > stats are always hard to get by. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to >> not >> >>> > lose >> >>> > > > stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily >> >>> the >> >>> > > > button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, >> >>> especially >> >>> > > > when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not >> >>> accurate. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I >> >>> never >> >>> > use >> >>> > > > "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used >> instead >> >>> of >> >>> > the >> >>> > > > "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced >> >>> users). >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki. >> org >> >>> < >> >>> > > http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the >> >>> > > > past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisi >> >>> bleSave/ >> >>> > > UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png> >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Now let's see the heatmaps: >> >>> > > > - Sandbox.WebHome: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> >> >>> > > > - Sandbox.TestPage1: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage >> 1.png> >> >>> > > > - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png> >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and >> >>> after >> >>> > is >> >>> > > > "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". >> >>> > > > Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by >> >>> > first-time >> >>> > > > users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so >> the >> >>> > > Preview >> >>> > > > is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is >> the >> >>> > first >> >>> > > > button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary >> action. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about >> >>> 'varB'? >> >>> > > > - var A [Save; Save & View]: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> >> >>> > > > - var B [Save & View; Preview]: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> >> >>> > > > - var C [Save & View; Save]: >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png> >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the >> >>> previous >> >>> > > view, >> >>> > > > see >> >>> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png < >> http://design.xwiki.org/ >> >>> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-pre >> >>> view.png> >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and >> have >> >>> > > > visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need >> to >> >>> use >> >>> > it >> >>> > > as >> >>> > > > an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always >> have a >> >>> > > static >> >>> > > > position = last. For this usually the first and last positions >> are >> >>> > best. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor >> >>> was >> >>> > that >> >>> > > > WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, >> >>> since I >> >>> > > never >> >>> > > > used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it >> >>> would >> >>> > be >> >>> > > > great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would >> summaries >> >>> a bit >> >>> > > > their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. >> >>> XWiki >> >>> > > needs >> >>> > > > to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users. >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > Thanks, >> >>> > > > Caty >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > >> Nice work! >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> Craig >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >>> On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> >>> > > >> vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> Hi, >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a >> >>> page >> >>> > they >> >>> > > >>> don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, >> >>> the >> >>> > save >> >>> > > >>> buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not >> visible >> >>> and >> >>> > > some >> >>> > > >>> users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: >> >>> > > >>> - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they >> are >> >>> out >> >>> > of >> >>> > > >> the >> >>> > > >>> viewport, see >> >>> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png >> >>> > > >>> - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, >> see >> >>> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/after.png >> >>> > > >>> - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, >> >>> > auto-save), >> >>> > > >> see >> >>> > > >>> before: >> >>> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/before.png >> >>> > > >>> after: >> >>> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> >>> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the >> >>> > visibility >> >>> > > of >> >>> > > >>> the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we >> should >> >>> > > >> implement? >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> Thanks, >> >>> > > >>> Caty >> >> > >
