If it means that much to you I might, but on a case by case basis.
John has provided evidence from his own kitchen as to what length UK products
use imperial. Very little from what he reported. Maybe you could do an
inventory of yours.
Tenerife is Spanish territory, so why wouldn't they be fully metric? They have
most likely been metric for 200 years or so.
Jerry
________________________________
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 8:43:21 PM
Subject: [USMA:44411] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
I've offered photos to prove my case here for you - I'm surprised you refuse to
make me your 'reference' for the UK.
With regards to pub soft drinks I can supply a photo attachment of a receipt if
you like? Also you ask for a photo of my gas meter - I can do that too. If I
do that will you make me your reference?
You'll need to wait a few days - I'm in Tenerife for the moment (the use of
metric here is almost as common s your 'special version' of the UK - you'd like
it)
________________________________
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:26:15 -0700
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: [USMA:44355] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu
Ken obviously has a better knowledge (for whatever reason) then you do on the
subject. He is able to back up his facts with references.. All you do is make
statements without a single gram of proof.
I know how soft drinks are served in pubs. In a glass.
In order for you to answer questions for me I need proof to back it up. I
don't think you can provide it like Ken can.
Jerry
________________________________
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 8:30:14 PM
Subject: [USMA:44355] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
Jerry (JPS),
'Ken' (Lee) says a lot of things. I recommend you dont refer to him totally as
a reference point (as I have pointed out a few times). You're probably best
reading my posts. By the way - feel free to email me off the list with other
questions (including 'tee' drinks) - as I said they're not served in metric (or
imperial , I believe) however I can answer other questions for you (incl soft
drinks in pubs, etc)
Cheers
'Steve' (Steve)
________________________________
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:54:21 -0700
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: [USMA:44223] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu
I meant to say metric sizes and not specifically litres.
Go to your favorite Tesco and look for tea and soft drinks and you will find
them sold only in metric sizes without supplemental indicators. Solids in
grams and liquids in litres.
In Restaurants in the US, tea, coffee other drinks are sold without reference
to an amount. Basically because most have free refills. The cups and glasses
vary from location to location so there is no fixed size.
Ken can explain if the situation in the UK is the same.
Jerry
________________________________
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:15:51 AM
Subject: [USMA:44223] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
Ah - you realise your mistake ('tee' totaller versus cup of 'tea').
No - tea and other soft drinks get served in imperial, metric or neither (when
I mean neither I mean when a cup of tea is poured it does not go via an optic
or measuring container - it just gets poured).
Why do you think cups of tea are served via a metric measuring device in the
UK? I'm intrigued.
________________________________
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:59:57 -0700
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subject: [USMA:44217] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
To: usma@colostate.edu
Do you also like the fact that tea and other non-alcoholic drinks sold in the
UK are rounded liters?
Jerry
________________________________
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 2:01:29 PM
Subject: [USMA:44203] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
I like your thinking!!! ;-) ;-) ;-) (gsoh)
________________________________
From: trus...@grandecom.net
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:44185] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:39:49 -0500
I guess I'm ignorant of Jerry's and Stephen's facts because I am a teetotaler.
But now that I know all this, all I can say is, geesh! I'd love to work in a
British hospital pharmacy. If you folks are so rigorous about measuring suds, I
would think your pharmacists and pharmacy technicians would the best on the
planet.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: 29 March, 2009 08:19
Subject: [USMA:44182] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
UK pubs have large drip trays and it's part of the ordering of a pint to see it
filled to overflowing. Yes - they actually do fill then overfill.
And yes you are actually correct (cause for celebration) that only some pubs
have oversized pint glasses that have marks.
It's been said on this very listserv that anything more than a 5% head would be
technically illegal. You're special 'pint' would - of course -fall foul.
Having said ALL that - this "war" you've mentioned a few times today - it isn't
happening in the pubs. Apart from the mix of imperial and metric I've never
heard of a fight breaking out regarding being served a pretend metric size in a
pint glass - it really really does not happen - seriously. And as I said - if
you believe you have been short served you can ask for a top up - they're not
going to turn you away citing some measurement war where they are on the
opposite side - or something equally daft.
I'm a cider drinker - cider does not form a head - so I always get my full
measure ;-)
One of the drinks I had last night was bottled (not draught) cider. As it
happens it was not one of the more famous pint glasses. Yes - I had a 350ml
bottle of Aspall cider. Strangely enough I did not refuse to drink it due to
it being in a metric bottle. I chose metric. (Well, in reality I chose a
cider I wanted and knew I liked which happened to be in metric bottles).
________________________________
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:56:32 -0700
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: [USMA:44168] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu
I would tend to believe Pat's explanation. I'm sure everyone else does too.
All you have said is that beer CAN be sold in oversized glasses. This does
not mean it is. You also say that one CAN ask for a top up. Again that
doesn't mean people do.
Somehow overfilling a glass so it over runs the brim doesn't sound right. It
makes for mess and makes the glass slippery, making it easier to drop and cause
a hazard. Also, product is wasted and that can add up to liters of lost beer
that goes down the drain. Who pays for that?
You just don't want to accept that when you ask for a pint, you are only
getting 500 mL of liquid, not a milliliter more.
Maybe now you would like to discuss how wine and spirits are sold in rounded
metric sizes in UK pubs. Of course a pro-choice person such as yourself would
never order such items for fear of having to utter the word milliliter.
Jerry
________________________________
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:39:55 PM
Subject: [USMA:44168] RE: Downsizing beer glasses
Pints in the UK can be served in oversized glasses (showing pint markings) or
with 'brim' amounts. You can go back to ask for it to be topped up if you
think that the pint is not a legal pint.
In reality the bar server tends to pour beer into a glass so it overruns the
side - giving you the full pint. I've never seen a pint as small as 500ml.
Ever.
'Heady' drinks are poured in a specific way - eg Guinness. There's a 'knack'.
Esp in the case of guinness the white head forms part of the 'experience'.
Sometimes a shamrock is 'drawn' into the head. In some areas of Northern
Ireland this is seen as 'politically incorrect' ;-) .
Drinks like cider and lager tend to be headless and don't have the same issue.
I would suspect cider and lager are the most asked pint style drinks.
Some pubs are now doing 'third' pint drinks now.. My favourite one is.
________________________________
From: pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:44162] Downsizing beer glasses
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 07:16:44 +1100
On 2009/03/29, at 2:45 AM, Jeremiah MacGregor wrote:
I'm sure Pat can tell us that the pint is still spoken in pubs in Australia,
but no one would use it to mean a specific amount and thus the term has become
generic.
Dear Jerry,
Sadly, it is true that the word, pint, is still used in Australian hotels. And
it is still used, as it is in the UK, to hide a long period of downsizing by
the beer companies in collusion with government consumer affairs officials.
Let me explain what I mean.
Years ago when a pint was served in an Australia or UK hotel or pub, the beer
was served in a 22 ounce container to allow for a pint of beer and for a
suitable 'head' of froth. Likewise a half pint of beer was served in an 11
ounce container to allow for the 10 ounce half pint and the appropriate head.
Some time ago, in the order of 50 years I suspect, lobbyists from the beer
companies were able to convince legislators (or was it regulation writers) that
a pint of beer could be served in a pint container that held a pint of water
when filled to the brim of the glass. The law makers suitably rolled over like
little puppies to get their tummies tickled and, in both Australia and the UK,
if you asked for 'a pint of beer' in the last 50 years you would have received
very close to 500 millilitres of beer with about 70 millilitres of 'head'. I
leave to others to calculate this roughly 10 % gain in profits by the beer
companies deceit over this period of time.
The next part of the campaign, as I observe it in the 21st century, is to
downsize the beer glass from a pint (568 mL) to a rounded 500 mL glass.
Naturally to do this the beer companies will need to reduce the size of the
'beer pint' even further. The Guinness company has already begun this process
with their 440 mL can designed with enough beer to fit into a glass that holds
500 mL of air to the brim of the glass before you pour in the 440 mL of beer
and the 60 mL of froth. I have noticed that this campaign has, so far, been
tried in Australia and in Singapore.
To answer Jerry's question a little more directly, it seems to me that the use
of the word 'pint', and its continued encouragement and support by beer
companies, is to maintain the illusion that drinkers are getting more beer that
they actually receive.
As a side issue, the word 'pint' is a relative to the word 'paint' from the
time that Roman soldiers demanded that a paint mark be used on the side of
(opaque ?) beer containers so that drinkers could check that the level of
liquid beer was 'up to the paint'. Paint was gradually changed over the last
2000 years to the word, 'pint'. But you will note that the rapaciousness of
beer makers and sellers is not a new thing!
Cheers,
Pat Naughtin
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216,
Geelong, Australia
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008
Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA,
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA.
See http://www.metricationmatters.com/for more metrication information, contact
Pat at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free 'Metrication
matters' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to
subscribe.
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