(see inserted comments below)
On Sep 29, 2003, at 11:47, Johann wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Wade Preston Shearer wrote:
my VISA through my credit union (not a bank),
But VISA and all the card processors are only nominally different from
"banks" -- and how does it matter if you use a VISA through a CU vs. a
bank? They're only marginally different nowadays. To date I have generally
preferred credit unions, but that's not really material to the discussion.
it did matter in the thread when i said it. we were talking about fees. there are major difference between banks and credit unions. banks and business. credit unions are unions. banks are owned by a person that is in the business of making money. credit unions are own by its members and are in the business of helping each other out with money. banks have fees, credit unions do not. sure, most banks have been removing their fees the past few years, but credit unions have been fee-free since they began centuries ago.
has no annual fee
It would be crazy to pay one.
right... that's what i was saying.
get 1% back on every purchase...
Remembering that money doesn't grow on trees, and that is a tax the
retailer adds on to every purchase, as others have mentioned. It's a poor
economy to "make" money by having all prices first be raised.
they don't raise prices to cover the transaction fee. visa requires this.
AND, i pay off each purchase every night online (keep the receipt) via my credit unions free website by transferring funds from my savings account to the VISA.
That's wise.
AND, i don't have to carry any cash, leaving my wallet almost paper thin.
Um ... sorry, but cash isn't one of the thicker things in my wallet. Two
credit cards is about as thick as 5+ bills.
what about when you are going grocery shopping (for two weeks, to feed a family of six), to the hardware store for a new grill and a lawn mower, to the gas station to fill up your suburban, and out to dinner (with your family of six). a thousand dollars in bills, after change, is a lot to put your back pocket.
VISA is accepted everywhere.,
No, it certainly is not. Tried buying gas in California? Or a hot dog at a
street vendor? Or buying computer hardware from people who actually charge
you the fees they pay to accept your credit card? Or online vendors who
are fed up with fraudulent purchases from eastern Europe?
obviously... what i meant was... it is accepted more than any other credit card... and accepted everywhere i make purchases... allows you to purchase online... etc.
obviously, you cannot pay a hotdog vender with a credit card...
Can you pay your buddy back $20 with your credit card? Can you pay the kid
down the street to mow your lawn? Can you pay fast offerings? Can you hand
a hungry traveler $20?
...or your buddy... or the neighborhood lawnmower... but they will take a check.
i keep two checks in my wallet for emergencies. i also write checks electronically (wire transfers where possible, otherwise a physical check is sent), FOR FREE, through my CU's website.
and besides, i don't ever eat hotdogs from venders. i don't ever have times when i need to pay for something that i don't have cash. even for tithing/fast offerings, i can send a check for the desired amount to myself from my bank, made out to the church, and then deliver it in a donations envelope.
What happens when the phone lines are down? The power's out? Etc.? It seems incredibly risky to me to not have any fungible non-intermediated currency on hand.
agreed. in an emergency, it would be wise to have hard currency on hand.
As I mentioned before, there's also the most-likely permanent record in various databases of the places you've been, the things you've bought, places you've patronized, etc. Backups are cheap, data mining is Fun & Easy, and companies get bought so often that your buying habits will probably live a long time. Perhaps you don't care. In 30 years, even if you do care, it'll be too late to get your privacy back.
i do care, but our privacy was gone a long time ago.
Is it a big deal to have some transactions tracked in a database? No, I
don't think so. Is it a big deal to have *all* of them tracked? Yeah. For
me it's willingly enabling and encouraging the situation John saw in his
vision on Patmos:
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. And that no
man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the
beast, or the number of his name." (Rev. 13:16-17)
Lest I sound like I oppose the existence or occasional use of credit on demand, and/or credit cards, I'll say that I *don't* think credit cards are the mark of the Beast, or evil. I have some myself, and find them quite useful if I run out of cash
this is bad. if you ran out... you should be out. if you spend money you don't have, that is debt. and i think that that is worse than the mark of the beast.
while out of town, etc. I'm not anti- diversity in the payments system. But I'll repeat myself:
Using credit cards is pretty reasonable if they're acutally adding value:
facilitating faster ecommerce, constraining corporate spending to certain
dollar limits or categories, or giving me a relatively low-interest loan
on demand, without having to talk to a bank employee every time. Those are
all worth something, but they're relatively rare occurrences and have
nothing to do with my regular buying groceries, gas, etc.
I just shudder at blanket credit-card cheerleading.
Johann
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