On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 11:47, Johann wrote: > > VISA is accepted everywhere., > > No, it certainly is not. Tried buying gas in California? Or a hot dog at a > street vendor? Or buying computer hardware from people who actually charge > you the fees they pay to accept your credit card? Or online vendors who > are fed up with fraudulent purchases from eastern Europe?
VISA is a godsend, though for travelers. I took a couple hundred dollars in US cash with me to Europe and used ATMs with my visa card for the rest. Very convenient and safer (from being robbed). Fraud is a problem, but VISA is *very* proactive in fighting fraud. > > Can you pay your buddy back $20 with your credit card? Can you pay the kid > down the street to mow your lawn? Can you pay fast offerings? Can you hand > a hungry traveler $20? Cash always has a place, at least for now. > > What happens when the phone lines are down? The power's out? Etc.? It > seems incredibly risky to me to not have any fungible non-intermediated > currency on hand. After telling you about my great Europe VISA exprience, your point is important, as tourists in Italy found out this weekend. With no electricity, many tourists who carried very little cash were really stuck until the ATMS came back up. On the other hand, in a real emergency, or if order were to break down, cash becomes a worthless piece of paper. After all money is completely artificial. But we need it because we have attached value to it as a world, and so we need to have it. > > As I mentioned before, there's also the most-likely permanent record in > various databases of the places you've been, the things you've bought, > places you've patronized, etc. Backups are cheap, data mining is Fun & > Easy, and companies get bought so often that your buying habits will > probably live a long time. Perhaps you don't care. In 30 years, even if > you do care, it'll be too late to get your privacy back. The same things are happening with "fresh values" cards, and so forth. I think we should be concerned and aware, but not overly paranoid. > > Is it a big deal to have some transactions tracked in a database? No, I > don't think so. Is it a big deal to have *all* of them tracked? Yeah. For > me it's willingly enabling and encouraging the situation John saw in his > vision on Patmos: > > "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, > to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. And that no > man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the > beast, or the number of his name." (Rev. 13:16-17) > I've always found this reference to be interesting. It's oft-quoted among almost all Christian denominations. Obviously John made mention of it for a reason. Historically, "the Beast" refers not to Satan, but to Nero. It was a kind of a code word (somewhat derogatory) that the early saints used during the times of persecution. The mark of the best (referred to as 666) was the mark of Nero. 666 was another symbol of Nero. At that time, indeed you could not do business without the mark of the beast; Nero's caricature was on all the currency. Homage had to paid to him. Of course, I do believe that Nero was an evil man, and anyone who is evil does have a connection to darkness. Other interesting symbols that came out of the Nero persecution era include the fish symbol, apparently used to identify the church members to each other. Of course now that simply has been taken by others, such as Born-Again Christians. Anyway, my only point is that there is a lot more to that revelation than merely a future prophecy. There were also things that were relevant directly to the members at that time. Interesting points that everyone has been bringing up. Michael > Lest I sound like I oppose the existence or occasional use of credit on > demand, and/or credit cards, I'll say that I *don't* think credit cards > are the mark of the Beast, or evil. I have some myself, and find them > quite useful if I run out of cash while out of town, etc. I'm not anti- > diversity in the payments system. But I'll repeat myself: > > Using credit cards is pretty reasonable if they're acutally adding value: > facilitating faster ecommerce, constraining corporate spending to certain > dollar limits or categories, or giving me a relatively low-interest loan > on demand, without having to talk to a bank employee every time. Those are > all worth something, but they're relatively rare occurrences and have > nothing to do with my regular buying groceries, gas, etc. > > I just shudder at blanket credit-card cheerleading. > > Johann > > ____________________ > BYU Unix Users Group > http://uug.byu.edu/ > ___________________________________________________________________ > List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list -- Michael L Torrie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ____________________ BYU Unix Users Group http://uug.byu.edu/ ___________________________________________________________________ List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list
