Adam, That experience you had is really really sad and wrong. I'm guessing it was a mis-informed, over-zealous and under-paid student worker. The spirit of BYU's policies is great. The way its written and enforced can be ludicrous.
-matt On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Hans Fugal wrote: > Let me assure everyone (from my own experience) that no UUG member I > have met will shun you at a meeting for your beard, or longer or unkempt > hair. (You might get teased if you wear a Microsoft T-shirt) So as far > as UUG functions go there's no reason to fret it. If you get funny looks > walking on campus, well we all do. ;-) > > My own take on it is that the Honor Code is good, but it is an agreement > students make. A non-student is under no obligation to be clean-shaven. > Many forum speakers have beards. Anyone who mistreats you will probably > back down when you mention you're not a student. If they don't, then > ignore them - it'll be fun. > > * Adam Augustine [Sat, 1 Nov 2003 at 03:41 -0700] > <quote> > > Matthew J. Probst wrote: > > => Are there really people who stay away from UUG meetings because they > > >haven't shaved in a while? BYU does not enforce grooming > > >standards for campus visitors... perhaps they do for dress codes (so > > >no short-shorts or bare mid-riffs at UUG meetings)... hopefully PLUGrs > > >don't dress this way anyway. :) > > > > I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but I just couldn't > > resist here. Maybe it is the insomnia... > > > > I love BYU and I am one of the (few?) people that actually thinks the > > Honor Code is a good idea (maybe not perfect in implementation, but even > > the Church, which is perfect, suffers occasionally from mortal > > inadequacies (I mean, hey, when was the last time the quorum had 100% > > home teaching? I guess its too late for October :-)). > > > > Some years ago, not long after I got married and finished at BYU, I went > > with my wife (still a student) to some BYU function at the Wilk (I > > forget what it was). I had not shaved for a few days (just being lazy), > > though I was dressed in slacks and tie. I bought our tickets and we > > walked down the hall to the entrance of the event. The ticket takers > > wouldn't let me in, because I hadn't shaved. I argued for a bit, saying > > that they shouldn't have sold me the tickets if I couldn't get in. They > > asked if I could go home, shave, and return. I explained that the event > > would be over before I got back. They were polite, but firm. > > > > We ended up going to the other entrance (it was in that big ballroom > > south of the center atrium, don't know if it is still there after all > > the remodeling). Being careful to look away when my wife handed over the > > tickets, we got in. > > > > It was the only time I can recall that I didn't feel comfortable and at > > home at BYU. > > > > I should have shaved for the event. I was wrong to show up there knowing > > what my host's standards were, and not respecting those standards. > > > > But somewhere down inside me, there was a little part of me that felt > > that BYU, as a representative of the Church at an event open to the > > public, should have been a bit more lenient. Maybe said something like > > "Hey, lookin' a bit scruffy there Brother" to let me know gently that > > higher standards were expected than what I was showing. > > > > I have often wondered how someone who wasn't a member of the Church, and > > who had not had any dealings with BYU before would have reacted. It > > never came up whether I was a student. The doorkeepers just assumed I > > was. Would they have reacted differently if I explained that I wasn't? > > Probably. > > > > We don't throw people out of Sacrament meeting because they haven't > > dressed or groomed themselves appropriately. > > > > But then again, BYU isn't the Church, so I shouldn't expect it to behave > > the same. BYU is more a missionary tool, and it isn't unreasonable to > > expect its representatives (whoever participates in its functions) to > > look the part. > > > > Was I an investigator, or a missionary? > > > > I appreciate Matt's attitude toward the "unofficial members" of the UUG. > > I suspect there is a general feeling among most Unix users that "the > > outward appearance" doesn't mean much, but what you are able to > > contribute to the community is what counts. This is one of the reasons I > > like the computer culture generally. I like to look clean cut and > > reasonably well dressed (and I am certainly more conscientious about it > > now than I was that day), but it also gives me warm fuzzies to know that > > the people that I meet don't care much. > > > > There are people watching and forming opinions based on appearances at > > BYU[1]. I am not saying you should stay away from the next UUG meeting > > because you haven't shaved, but I am saying you may need to be a bit > > patient with people if they don't react in a perfectly Christlike way if > > you show up not looking quite like they expect. > > > > I guess my point (if I even have one, it is >3:00am and I am dog tired, > > sick, and going crazy 'cuz I can't fall asleep) is twofold. First, > > dress/groom the way your host expects and you won't be feel > > uncomfortable or out of place, and second, cut people some slack if they > > have a hard time with your looks, because it is hard to get past the > > outward appearance sometimes[2]. > > > > Thanks, > > Adam Augustine > > > > [1]- Not just at BYU but everywhere, I know. But sometimes people expect > > BYU to be above that for some illogical reason. People like me for > > instance :-( > > [2]- http://www.erenkrantz.com/Humor/BSDDaemon.shtml > > > > <random thoughts before I go to sleep> > > So this is on-topic because: > > 1) It is about BYU and this is the *BYU* UUG. > > 2) Footnote #2 is about BSD and that is a flavor of Unix > > 3) ESR is proposing a logo for hackers, and that is about appearances > > and Unix. > > 4) And well, sometimes its ok to be off-topic. > > 5) Its not crossposted. > > 6) Its might be a vote to keep the lists seperate, because I don't think > > I could get away with this on the PLUG list. Then again, I never > > subscribed to the PLUG list, so I don't know. Been meaning to do that... > > for a few years now... > > </random thoughts> > > > > > > ____________________ > > BYU Unix Users Group > > http://uug.byu.edu/ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list > </quote> > > -- > Hans Fugal | De gustibus non disputandum est. > http://hans.fugal.net/ | Debian, vim, mutt, ruby, text, gpg > http://gdmxml.fugal.net/ | WindowMaker, gaim, UTF-8, RISC, JS Bach > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > GnuPG Fingerprint: 6940 87C5 6610 567F 1E95 CB5E FC98 E8CD E0AA D460 > ____________________ BYU Unix Users Group http://uug.byu.edu/ ___________________________________________________________________ List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list
