Monica, you are a gold mine of information even when you're asking a
question : D
I did run across that N alfabeto chord in Sanz recently. Ouch!
By the way, the chord shape we were talking about (I alfabeto, A
sounding chord on 5 course and modern guitars, and D on the 4 course)
is very easy to play as below on my little 4-course as:
____a___
_2__c___
_1__c___
_1__c___
And then I'm free to ornament and move on from there afterward. I think
I might prefer the 1-2-3 on a modern classical guitar (which I rarely
play anymore), though, because of the difference in size and the
difference in the music.
Best,
Jocelyn
___________________________________________________________________
From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:42:57 -0400
To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2]nels...@ecu.edu>
Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
Now we are getting even more abstruse!
The equivalent of chord I in Castilian notation is represented by the
letter
P and known as Patilla! Ribayaz calls it that and both Sanz and Guerau
have a Passacalles por Patilla but I can't remember whether Murcia
mentions
the term. It is called that because of the shape the notes/fingers
make on
the fingerboard. I think it means "a little plate".
In the "Arte de la guitarra" of Joseph Guerrero the equivalent of
Alfabeto
Chord A (G major) is called "dedillo". Nobody is quite sure why but
this is
probably because the first course is stopped with the little finger.
The
4-part version of this chord found in Millioni for example has the
second,
third and fourth courses unstopped.
In both Sanz and Murcia's tables there is a minor form of chord N
which
involves a 4th finger half barre...
Montesardo certainly does say you should make a trill whenever the 4th
finger is free - which is interesting in such an early alfabeto source.
Regards
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[5]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; "Stewart McCoy"
<[6]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>; "Monica Hall" <[7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuela List" <[8]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
> Wasn't this the "pedilla" ("little foot") fingering mentioned in
one of
> the books? Sorry I can't find it now.
> But just as Stewart says, below, Montesardo says something in
general
> about leaving the left hand little finger free for trills or other
> ornaments (I'm going by Boye's translation).
> Jocelyn
>
___________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Martyn Hodgson <[1][9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:34:56 -0400
> To: Vihuela List <[2][10]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, Stewart McCoy
> <[3][11]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
> All, of course, helped by these chords being in a lower position
with
> the thicker frets.
> M
> --- On Sun, 11/10/09, Stewart McCoy <[4][12]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:
> > From: Stewart McCoy <[5][13]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Chord I
> > To: "Vihuela List" <[6][14]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Date: Sunday, 11 October, 2009, 9:13 PM
> > Dear Monica,
> >
> > Thank you for confirming what I had thought was the case,
> > that this is
> > the standard fingering for the A major chord in
> > 17th-century guitar
> > books:
> >
> > ____a___
> > _2__c___
> > _1__c___
> > _1__c___
> > ____a___
> >
> > That is the fingering I try to use now. The great advantage
> > is that you
> > can trill on the 2nd course using your 4th finger at the
> > 3rd fret. You
> > get plenty of leverage trilling between the 2nd and 4th
> > fingers, more
> > than you would trilling with the 3rd and 4th fingers.
> >
> > There are many ways of fingering that A major chord. The
> > commonest seen
> > in modern guitar tutors is
> >
> > ____a___
> > _3__c___
> > _2__c___
> > _1__c___
> > ____a___
> > ________
> >
> > That's OK if you have thin fingers, but there is always the
> > danger that
> > the 1st finger won't get close enough to the 2nd fret, and
> > you'll get a
> > buzz. One way of avoiding that, is to use this fingering:
> >
> > ____a___
> > _3__c___
> > _1__c___
> > _2__c___
> > ____a___
> >
> > which I sometimes use, particularly if hopping back and
> > forth between
> > chords of A and D major, because the 1st and 3rd fingers
> > stay on the
> > same string. Otherwise I go for the first fingering above.
> >
> > By the way, exactly the same thing applies to the chord of
> > G major on a
> > renaissance lute:
> >
> > ____a___
> > ____a___
> > _2__c___
> > _1__c___
> > _1__c___
> > ____a___
> >
> > is usually best, and as with the guitar, you can trill with
> > your 4th
> > finger, this time on the 3rd course.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Stewart McCoy.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [7][15]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > [[8][16]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Monica Hall
> > Sent: 11 October 2009 15:22
> > To: Rob MacKillop
> > Cc: Vihuelalist
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
> >
> > That's very helpful and interesting what
> > you say about the technique
> > being standard for blues and jazz.
> > There's obviously a long
> > tradition
> > there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Monica
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: [1]Rob MacKillop
> >
> > To: [2]Monica Hall
> >
> > Cc: [3]Vihuelalist
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 1:42 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Chord I
> >
> > I use the 2nd finger on the 2nd course,
> > and the first finger on the
> > other two courses. I have no problem with
> > the open first string
> > sounding. I show beginner-ish students
> > this technique and invariable
> > they can't bend their first finger
> > inwards at the first joint, but
> > some
> > who have played blues and or jazz guitar
> > before have no problem - it
> > is
> > fairly standard technique for those
> > styles.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > 2009/10/11 Monica Hall <[4][9][17]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> >
> > This is a rather abstruse
> > query.
> > In most Italian guitar
> > tables of alfabeto chords which include
> > the
> > left
> > hand fingering the
> > indication is that Chord I is to be played
> > using a
> > half (or hinge) barre to
> > stop the 4th and 3rd courses and the 2nd
> > finger to stop the 2nd
> > course at the 2nd fret.
> >
> > 0
> >
> > 2 1
> >
> > 2 1
> >
> > 2 2
> >
> > 0
> > This doesn't seem to me the
> > most convenient way of doing it
> > especially
> > when combined with other
> > chords and I always use 1st, 2nd and 3rd
> > fingers.
> > Ruiz de Ribayaz does give
> > my preferred fingering as an
> > alternative to
> > the Italian one.
> > Both Sanz and Murcia seem
> > to think that the 4th course should be
> > stopped with the 1st finger
> > and a 2nd finger half barre used to
> > stop
> > the 2nd and 3rd which seems
> > a bit odd to me!
> > I wonder if Sanz is a
> > misprint which Murcia has copied.
> > In the illustrations of the
> > fingers stopping the chords on the
> > fingerboard in Sanz the
> > standard Italian fingering is shown.
> > I just wonder how everyone
> > else on this list usually fingers
> > chord
> > I
> > and what the advantages are
> > of the different possibilities.
> > Monica
> > --
> > To get on or off this list see
> > list information at
> >
[5][10][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [11][19]mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com
> > 2. [12][20]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> > 3. [13][21]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > 4. [14][22]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> > 5.
[15][23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [16][24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[25]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
> 2.
[26]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. [27]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
> 4. [28]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
> 5. [29]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
> 6.
[30]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 7.
[31]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 8. [32]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 9. [33]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 10. [34]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 11. [35]mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com
> 12. [36]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 13. [37]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 14. [38]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 15. [39]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 16. [40]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
7. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
8. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
10. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
12. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
13. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
14. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
17. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
19. mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com
20. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
21. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
22. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
26. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
27. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
28. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
29. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lu...@tiscali.co.uk
30. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
31. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
32. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
33. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
34. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
35. mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com
36. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
37. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
38. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
39. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
40. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
