-----Original Message-----
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf
Of Monica Hall
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:56 AM
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
Dear Martin
Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of these sources!
As a general observation however, I think that all these sources suggest
that a
variety of different accompaniments and arrangements could be used. You
can't lay down hard and fast rules because in the 17th century they didn't
have any. Interestingly Piccinini apparently
suggests that some of his pieces could be played on the lute and organ
with
basso continuo or chitarrone and organ although no parts for these
instruments are included in the printed book. [I have a recording of some
of
the pieces played in this way].
As far as unambiguous (17th c) references
to the guitar playing basso continuo together with other bass instruments
is
concerned - is there any unamibiguous evidence that it didn't. Why
should
it not do so? We don't really have any evidence one way or the other.
There seem to me to be completely unrealistic expectations as to what any
of
the sources ought to tell us.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:47 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
Dear Monica,
You may well be right that the guitar part was originally independent
and the string parts added to it (by Granata?): that might explain the
harmonic discrepencies both you and I have pointed out.
Do you know Pittoni's 1669 printed collection of tiorba solos (with
figured bass)? They have something to tell us here I think: the bass is
often more 'complete' than the intabulated tiorba part. But, even more
intriguing, is that a MS of violin music was discovered in contemporary
hand which Orlando Christoferetti identified as an additional violin
part grafted on to some of the tiorba solos (not all the Sonatas had
the added part). The presents a good model of the practice which might
apply in the case of the Granata collection. In Pittoni's collection
the basso is specified as being for 'l'Organ'o for the 12 church
sonatas and 'Il Clavicembalo' for the 12 chamber sonatas.
A facsimile (cheap!) of the printed books and the MS are available from
the SPES publishing house.
Martyn
--- On Fri, 15/4/11, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
To: "Stuart Walsh" <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 12:41
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Walsh" <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: "[2]michael.f...@notesinc.com" <[3]michael.f...@notesinc.com>
Cc: <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
> On 14/04/2011 22:28, [5]michael.f...@notesinc.com wrote:
>> Dear List,
>>
>>
>> I have recently finished editing all the known chamber music for
>> Baroque guitar and strings, including all these "Capricci" by
>> Granata.
>> I noted the light figured bass markings here and in Granata's
Sonata
>> (1659) for the same instrumentation (in which the violin is
*not* a
>> mere doubling). However, I decided not to include any continuo
>> realizations, because the guitar already provides a nice sketch
of
>> the
>> harmonies. (This decision was reached partly in conference with
>> Monica.)
>>
>>
>> That said, please let me point out three "Simphonies" by Henry
>> Grenerin
>> for two violins, guitar, and "basse" with figures, where the
figures
>> are specified to be for a theorbo. We should probably consider
the
>> theorbo/chitarrone to be a good continuo instrument for
Granata's
>> music
>> as well.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
> Mike
>
> I've been looking through more of Granata's "Novi Capricci" (1674).
For a
> start I feel a little unsettled by some of the tablature. Why are g#s
> (you'd think, first string fourth fret) sometimes put on the second
course
> at the ninth fret? There are other awkward moments too where you
might
> expect a guitarist to smooth things out... and just be a it more
> guitaristic..
>
> And the guitar doesn't always merely double the top string part.
>
> Most strikingly, there are places where the guitar harmony simply
doesn't
> match the bass part. For example, the D minor Giga (p.18). In bars
6,7 and
> 10 the guitar is playing a C chord in inversion and the bass line
seems to
> indicate F major. And in the B minor Alemanda, there is a point where
the
> guitar plays an alfebeto B minor and the bass line (on a strong
beat, not
> a passing note) has the note G. As far as I can see, you fairly often
> have to make small adjustments to get the parts to fit. And there
would be
> far fewer issues if the guitar was fully re-entrant.
>
> If the guitarist read the music, not the notation, there would be no
> issues! It does look rather like like the guitar part is independent.
>
>
> Stuart
>
> I can't help thinking there is something odd going on.
Well - with the baroque guitar we can be pretty sure that something odd
is
going on. But I am inclined to agree with you that the guitar parts
may
have originally been independent of the string parts. If indeed they
are
the pieces which Corbetta says he pirated, or if they are actually by
Corbetta rather than Granata, it could be that the versions printed in
1674
are re-arrangements of rather earlier pieces.
And needless to say I think you are right about them being intended for
the
re-entrant tuning. I think this is the most suitable for Granata's
late
books at least. But I am not sure about the G#s - haven't had time to
go
through and look at them.
Monica
>>
>> [1][6]mich...@lgv-pub.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[7]michael.f...@notesinc.com
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
2.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
3.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
4.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
5.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mich...@lgv-pub.com
7.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
