On 09/12/2011 22:06, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
Well, the waltz was nasty because people held each other closely while dancing. There's even a funny quote from 1799 in Grove about people waltzing in the "dark corner" of the room. I think the sarabanda and ciacona garnered comments from some shocked Europeans in the 17th century or earlier. Maybe some performers are making the most (too much?) of it now to sell CDs, but the dances really did seem to scandalize Europeans back in the day. Perhaps more than choreography bothered them (with the Spanish/New World dances): rhythms, instrumentation, topics, maybe even the cultural group the music originated from?
The eroticised other, indeed.
Yesteryear's hip hop? Jocelyn From: Monica Hall<[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:42:03 +0000 To: Stuart Walsh<[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Cc: Vihuelalist<[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Walsh"<[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> To: "Monica Hall"<[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: "Vihuelalist"<[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona? Exactly! I think this present day obsession with the idea that the dances were obscene and that being banned gives them some sort of instrinsic merit is a bit wide of the mark. Monica, who is obsessed with obscenity and early dance!? You should get out more and read more of the liner notes to CDs made by groups like Les Otros! When I read, a while ago, that the early 'sarabanda' had been banned for lewdness in some places, I thought that that was just extraordinary. And now the capona too, good grief! I think it would be fascinating to know what they were on about. I think they waved their arms about a bit and wiggled their hips. If you have Lute 2007 you will see the illustration on the front cover. It's on my Facebook site too. (I've got a book tucked away somewhere which says the same thing about the 19th century waltz) Sounds familiar. Monica (I just went to see ENO's production of Castor and Pollux in which the artists spent a lot of taking their knickers off - unthinkable in Rameau's time. They were actually quite prudish. But I can see now why Guerau in his Poema Harmonica says something to the effect that studying his complicated and difficult variations on the dance pieces will keep you out of trouble. Well he actaully says "Use it to banish idleness and raise your heart to God". But that's the sort of thing that they say in these prefaces. They were very high minded. How many players on this list raise their hearts to God when playing? Monica -- R On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:58 PM, Eloy Cruz wrote: Dear Stuart, list This is from Cotarelo y Mori's "Coleccion": p. CCXXXVII. Capona (La) (Baile). Dicc. de Autoridades: ^3Son o baile a modo de la Mariona; pero mas rapido y bullicioso, con el cual y a cuyo tanido se cantan varias coplillas^2. A very bad English translation could be: Music and dance in the way of a Mariona, but faster and noisier; to which music they use to sing several small coplas. In a 17th cent. Spanish play, one of the characters says he won't dance to that music, because it is "of very bad circumstances", because the word capon is used to refer to a man who has been emasculated. Best wishes eloy El [FECHA], "[NOMBRE]"<[DIRECCION]> escribio: Hi Stuart, I don't know what capona means, and I don't have the music handy, but I enjoyed this. I like your tempo. Best, Jocelyn From: Stuart Walsh [1]<[1][7]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:14:31 +0000 To: Vihuelalist [2]<[2][8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [VIHUELA] Capona? Timo Peedu has edited some Carbonchi pieces (to be found on his ning early guitar page). Included are two short and simple but unusual pieces with the title 'Capona'. There are a couple of versions of a very fancy Capona by Kapsberger (including one by Rob Mackillop). Any ideas what Capona means? Here is a go at the simple ones by Carbonchi. If I have misunderstood the timing or the way it should be played, I'd like to know (preferably in a polite way!) [3][3][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at [4][4][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm l -- References 1. [5][11]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. [6][12]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. [7][13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 4. [8][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [15]mailto:[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. [16]mailto:[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. [17]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 4. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. [19]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 6. [20]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. [21]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 8. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 5. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 8. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 12. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. mailto:[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com 16. mailto:[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 19. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 20. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 21. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I 22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html