Finally someone who sees sense! It’s always
the negativity that sticks around in the blind
community even though sites like Applevis tries
to tell about actual features of the system.
It’s for the features and functionality i
upgrade not to find things to bitch about. Call
me a fan boy, but there’s a reason why i am,
and it’s because Apples products even with
bugs work way, way, way better than Windblows did on my PCs.
/Krister
> 23 okt. 2015 kl. 21:29 skrev Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com>:
>
> So I have a question for the people that
think Apple is doing us a huge disservice with
these bugs? If you feel that way, why are you
still using their products? If you really do
feel that Apple's not taking any responsibility
for us because we're poor little blind people
which I refuse to be labelled that way, don't
know about anyone else, why not go to a
different operating system like Android? See,
Krister has a point. No matter how long we take
to beta test products and when the official
release does come out, people always have to
find something else to bitch about. It makes me
wonder sometimes why I bother beta testing for
these spoiled folks that think everything
should be perfect and go on bashing the people
that are involved in trying to make the
software a success. And then I remember that
there are people that do appreciate what people
like myself are doing. So to those people,
thanks, and to those other people, sorry to disappoint you.
>
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Mário Navarro <mario....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> hi.
>> very well said.
>> there are people in this group who needed to hear your words.
>> what it can be good for them, it may not be for others.
>> and for me it is not.
>> Apple has to take more responsibility for
the blind community in this world.
>> some people think that what Apple does for us, it's a favor.
>> we do not need favors, but rights.
>> and we must fight for our rights.
>> and this is not just for Apple, but for all
companies that do not respect us as they should
>> we always do our part in cooperation in
solving the problems, but the apple never treat
us with the same rights that deals with sighted people.
>>
>> apple has the ability to solve the problems
of the sighted, why it also does not solve the
problems of the blind with the same capacity?
>> blind are those who do not want to see ...
>>
>> and I'm blind, but I want to see!
>> and always want the best for me!
>> and if I am an apple user,
>> I'm also a client.
>> and if I am a client, I have to be treated with respect.
>> and respect for me, is to have equal rights.
>> thank you for your words.
>> cheers.
>>
>> Às 13:37 de 23/10/2015, Christopher Chaltain escreveu:
>>> I can assure you, I'm not missing the
point. The fact that Apple has a lot of
products is irrelevant. Apple is also the
wealthiest company in the world, due to the
fact that they have a lot of successful
products. I'm not going to cut them any slack
because they have a lot of products since they
also have a lot of resources. If they have too
many products, and they can't maintain a
certain level of quality across those products
then they need to make some changes in
priorities and business decisions. Note, I'm
not saying Apple has a quality issue or that
they don't care about accessibility. I'm just
saying that the argument that they have a lot of products is bogus.
>>>
>>> I can't help it if you think the issues
I've reported are trivial, but they certainly
are not to me. Having to hard reset my phone
every time I get a call when my headset is
attached certainly impacts my ability to use my
iPhone the way I've been using it for years. I
can also tell you that I process a lot fewer
emails now that I have to recycle VoiceOver
every time I reply to an email message. I use
an iPhone for both my personal use and for my
job, and these bugs are definitely impacting my
ability to be productive at work.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry the fact that I'm a lot less
reluctant to recommend an iPhone to a blind
user, at least not without telling them the
bugs I'm running into on IOS 9 bothers you, but
I'd hate to have a blind person get an iPhone
and then run into the problems I'm seeing. If
they don't use the phone the way I do, or they
don't see these bugs themselves, then that's
great, but at least they'll be making an
informed decision. My real point in saying that
though, was that people's impression of IOS 8
versus IOS 9 has a lot to do with how they use
their phone. I was not an IOS 8 basher, but I'm
definitely running into a lot more issue that
impact me and how I use my phone on IOS 9 then
I did on IOS 8. For me, the quality of IOS 9
has definitely deteriorated, so it isn't true
for everyone that IOS 8 was this unmitigated
disaster and IOS 9 has solved all of those issues.
>>>
>>> On 10/23/2015 06:48 AM, Daniel Miller wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think everyone’s missing the point
here. Apple’s accessibility team is not just
focusing on VoiceOver, they’re focusing on an
entire set of features, covering different
disabilities. Furthermore, they’ve now got 4
operating systems to focus on, rather than 2.
>>>> None of the bugs mentioned in this thread
absolutely prevent anyone from using iOS, so
let Apple fix them when they get to them on
what is probably a gigantic list of things to
fix, and not just for VoiceOver users.
>>>> Saying you can’t recommend the iPhone
any more because of a few minor annoyances
seems a bit far fetched in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:37 AM, Rajmund <brajmund2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> Yes, there are some worrying bugs, let's be fair.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Date: Friday, October 23, 2015 12:30 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: A Quick Word On Beta Testing
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me, I didn't find any bugs in IOS 8 I couldn't live with. I never
>>>>>> regretted upgrading to IOS 8. IOS 9 is a different story. I lose
>>>>>> VoiceOver when I answer a call with my
headset on, and VoiceOver freezes
>>>>>> when I reply to an email message. I'm still getting by with the work
>>>>>> arounds I've uncovered so far, but I'm much less satisfied with IOS 9
>>>>>> than I was with IOS 8, and I can't recommend the iPhone anymore to
>>>>>> another blind person, at least not
without letting them know about these
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/22/2015 12:43 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I guess you just said what i was trying
to say earlier on only mor well spokenly than me.
>>>>>>> Thanks for that.
>>>>>>> /Krister
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 18:59 skrev Wayne Merritt <wcmerr...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everyone,
>>>>>>>> Think for a moment how many bugs and
issues there were in iOS 8.X last
>>>>>>>> year. A number of them were directly
related to VoiceOver and a number
>>>>>>>> were in the mainstream. Apple got so much ill will from everyone
>>>>>>>> across the board for putting out things that didn't work. Now, with
>>>>>>>> iOS 9, I haven't seen nearly as much outcry among the masses for the
>>>>>>>> buggy and half-baked job Apple did
with iOS. There are things that are
>>>>>>>> bugs for some and not for others, but now that the focus issues have
>>>>>>>> been fixed, I haven't seen any other bugs that I can't live with.
>>>>>>>> Okay, so the phone does not automatically announce the time when I
>>>>>>>> press the home or power button; I can still touch the part of the
>>>>>>>> screen that has the time and check it
that way. Or, here's a thought,
>>>>>>>> look at another clock or watch if I really want to know what time it
>>>>>>>> is. And, for those thinking that Apple has sooo many bugs and no one
>>>>>>>> else does, widen your scope and look at Windows, JAWS, any screen
>>>>>>>> reader or assistive software, or any other widely used mainstream
>>>>>>>> software. All major releases has bugs
to some degree. If we waited for
>>>>>>>> the software companies to fix the bugs before they released the
>>>>>>>> software, we would be waiting forever for that next big thing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/22/15, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Of course you should report bugs. They won't be addressed if Apple
>>>>>>>>> doesn't know about them. They may
still not be addressed, but that will
>>>>>>>>> be a conscious decision made by Apple
and their developers. Your target
>>>>>>>>> isn't other users but the Apple
developers. If you weren't going to do
>>>>>>>>> something because of a negative
reaction by a minority of members on
>>>>>>>>> this list or in any community then you'd never do anything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You may be able to shrug off bugs
when you upgrade, but that doesn't
>>>>>>>>> mean everyone can. I did that with
IOS up through 8.4, but with IOS 9,
>>>>>>>>> answering phone calls with a headset
on and responding to emails is so
>>>>>>>>> bad it makes the phone virtually
unusable for two tasks I've come to
>>>>>>>>> depend on my iPhone for. IMHO,
there's too much judgment on this list
>>>>>>>>> about the impacts certain bugs have
on different users. We all don't use
>>>>>>>>> our phones the same way, so we
shouldn't pass judgment on another user
>>>>>>>>> because they're more impacted by a bug than we are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't get the reference to Windows.
Apple still has a long ways to go
>>>>>>>>> before it gets as much criticism as
Microsoft and Freedom Scientific has
>>>>>>>>> gotten from their blind users.
Furthermore, I don't see the fan boyism
>>>>>>>>> for Microsoft that I see for Apple in the blindness community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/22/2015 03:09 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> Very well said Mark, but what i ask
myself is does it matter what we as
>>>>>>>>>> beta testers might say? For every
release there has been and probably will
>>>>>>>>>> be a tsunami of negativity and
complaining and even if what has been
>>>>>>>>>> complained about would be fixed to
perfection they complain about the
>>>>>>>>>> fixes. Either it's too bloody late
or there's too little or too much of
>>>>>>>>>> everything. I'm the type of guy who
upgrades every app and every Os to see
>>>>>>>>>> what features are there and if there
are bugs, well shrug, nobody's
>>>>>>>>>> perfect. As i said before i think
it's strange that Apple gets so many
>>>>>>>>>> complaints about things that aren't
even their fault like apps that are
>>>>>>>>>> not upgraded and so don't work or
such. In my time on Windows there wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> anything like this complaining.
Nobody ever said that "freedom scientific
>>>>>>>>>> or GW Micro or Dolphin has abandoned
us and don't give a fig about us". So
>>>>>>>>>> are there bugs? Of course there
probably are, no big chunk of code is ever
>>>>>>>>>> bug free. Should we report them?
>>>>>>>>> Yes politely and with enough info to
make the folks aware of the problem
>>>>>>>>> but i wonder if that's the case when
i hear the tone here and on other
>>>>>>>>> forums where blind folks and Apple are the common denominator.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /Krister
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just want to let those of you,
who are not beta testers, know, is that
>>>>>>>>>>> with any company, be it Apple, Microsoft, Sony, etc, reporting a
>>>>>>>>>>> problem,
>>>>>>>>>>> regardless of how important it may
appear to be to the tester, is not
>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed immediately or, in some cases, ever.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has been my experience that the
larger an organization becomes, the
>>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>>>> responsive, in terms of addressing
non-mission critical problems, it may
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be to external testers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All we, as beta testers can do, is
to make the organization aware of the
>>>>>>>>>>> problems and hope that it will
manage to address said problems in a
>>>>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, beta testing is a
somewhat thankless job because, when
>>>>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>>>>> get squashed, no one pays attention
to them or cares how or why they
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> resolved and when bugs remain,
people think that the testers are not
>>>>>>>>>>> testing
>>>>>>>>>>> well enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, beta testing, not just for
Apple but for any company is my way of
>>>>>>>>>>> showing appreciation for those
things in life which I may now take for
>>>>>>>>>>> granted; things like clean drinking water, electricity, personal
>>>>>>>>>>> liberties,
>>>>>>>>>>> talking ATM machines, audio-described movies, screen readers,
>>>>>>>>>>> refreshable
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille displays, smart phones, hearing aids, medicine, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Beta testing is also my way of
showing my respect for those blind and
>>>>>>>>>>> low-vision pioneers who came before
me and it is a means by which I may,
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> some small part, leave a legacy to those who will follow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, when a product is released with
a number of bugs, please try to keep
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> mind that were it not for beta
testers, that number would most likely be
>>>>>>>>>>> much higher.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is
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>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> The following information is
important for all members of the VIPhone list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns
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>>>>>>>>> you feel that a member's post is
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>>>>>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>>>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter at:
>>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/wcmerritt
>>>>>>>> My website:
>>>>>>>> www.wayneism.com
>>>>>>>> My book list:
>>>>>>>> www.wayneism.com/books.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> The following information is important
for all members of the VIPhone list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns
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that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be
searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/.
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and
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>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The following information is important
for all members of the VIPhone list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns
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that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn -
you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from a Braille Sense
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
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