Hi, I think everyone’s missing the point here. Apple’s accessibility team is not just focusing on VoiceOver, they’re focusing on an entire set of features, covering different disabilities. Furthermore, they’ve now got 4 operating systems to focus on, rather than 2. None of the bugs mentioned in this thread absolutely prevent anyone from using iOS, so let Apple fix them when they get to them on what is probably a gigantic list of things to fix, and not just for VoiceOver users. Saying you can’t recommend the iPhone any more because of a few minor annoyances seems a bit far fetched in my opinion.
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:37 AM, Rajmund <brajmund2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > Yes, there are some worrying bugs, let's be fair. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2015 12:30 pm > Subject: Re: A Quick Word On Beta Testing > >> >> >> For me, I didn't find any bugs in IOS 8 I couldn't live with. I never >> regretted upgrading to IOS 8. IOS 9 is a different story. I lose >> VoiceOver when I answer a call with my headset on, and VoiceOver freezes >> when I reply to an email message. I'm still getting by with the work >> arounds I've uncovered so far, but I'm much less satisfied with IOS 9 >> than I was with IOS 8, and I can't recommend the iPhone anymore to >> another blind person, at least not without letting them know about these >> issues. >> >> On 10/22/2015 12:43 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I guess you just said what i was trying to say earlier on only mor well >>> spokenly than me. >>> Thanks for that. >>> /Krister >>> >>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 18:59 skrev Wayne Merritt <wcmerr...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> Everyone, >>>> Think for a moment how many bugs and issues there were in iOS 8.X last >>>> year. A number of them were directly related to VoiceOver and a number >>>> were in the mainstream. Apple got so much ill will from everyone >>>> across the board for putting out things that didn't work. Now, with >>>> iOS 9, I haven't seen nearly as much outcry among the masses for the >>>> buggy and half-baked job Apple did with iOS. There are things that are >>>> bugs for some and not for others, but now that the focus issues have >>>> been fixed, I haven't seen any other bugs that I can't live with. >>>> Okay, so the phone does not automatically announce the time when I >>>> press the home or power button; I can still touch the part of the >>>> screen that has the time and check it that way. Or, here's a thought, >>>> look at another clock or watch if I really want to know what time it >>>> is. And, for those thinking that Apple has sooo many bugs and no one >>>> else does, widen your scope and look at Windows, JAWS, any screen >>>> reader or assistive software, or any other widely used mainstream >>>> software. All major releases has bugs to some degree. If we waited for >>>> the software companies to fix the bugs before they released the >>>> software, we would be waiting forever for that next big thing. >>>> >>>> Wayne >>>> >>>> On 10/22/15, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Of course you should report bugs. They won't be addressed if Apple >>>>> doesn't know about them. They may still not be addressed, but that will >>>>> be a conscious decision made by Apple and their developers. Your target >>>>> isn't other users but the Apple developers. If you weren't going to do >>>>> something because of a negative reaction by a minority of members on >>>>> this list or in any community then you'd never do anything. >>>>> >>>>> You may be able to shrug off bugs when you upgrade, but that doesn't >>>>> mean everyone can. I did that with IOS up through 8.4, but with IOS 9, >>>>> answering phone calls with a headset on and responding to emails is so >>>>> bad it makes the phone virtually unusable for two tasks I've come to >>>>> depend on my iPhone for. IMHO, there's too much judgment on this list >>>>> about the impacts certain bugs have on different users. We all don't use >>>>> our phones the same way, so we shouldn't pass judgment on another user >>>>> because they're more impacted by a bug than we are. >>>>> >>>>> I don't get the reference to Windows. Apple still has a long ways to go >>>>> before it gets as much criticism as Microsoft and Freedom Scientific has >>>>> gotten from their blind users. Furthermore, I don't see the fan boyism >>>>> for Microsoft that I see for Apple in the blindness community. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/22/2015 03:09 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Very well said Mark, but what i ask myself is does it matter what we as >>>>>> beta testers might say? For every release there has been and probably >>>>>> will >>>>>> be a tsunami of negativity and complaining and even if what has been >>>>>> complained about would be fixed to perfection they complain about the >>>>>> fixes. Either it's too bloody late or there's too little or too much of >>>>>> everything. I'm the type of guy who upgrades every app and every Os to >>>>>> see >>>>>> what features are there and if there are bugs, well shrug, nobody's >>>>>> perfect. As i said before i think it's strange that Apple gets so many >>>>>> complaints about things that aren't even their fault like apps that are >>>>>> not upgraded and so don't work or such. In my time on Windows there >>>>>> wasn't >>>>>> anything like this complaining. Nobody ever said that "freedom scientific >>>>>> or GW Micro or Dolphin has abandoned us and don't give a fig about us". >>>>>> So >>>>>> are there bugs? Of course there probably are, no big chunk of code is >>>>>> ever >>>>>> bug free. Should we report them? >>>>> Yes politely and with enough info to make the folks aware of the problem >>>>> but i wonder if that's the case when i hear the tone here and on other >>>>> forums where blind folks and Apple are the common denominator. >>>>>> >>>>>> /Krister >>>>>> >>>>>>> 22 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just want to let those of you, who are not beta testers, know, is that >>>>>>> with any company, be it Apple, Microsoft, Sony, etc, reporting a >>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>> regardless of how important it may appear to be to the tester, is not >>>>>>> always >>>>>>> addressed immediately or, in some cases, ever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has been my experience that the larger an organization becomes, the >>>>>>> less >>>>>>> responsive, in terms of addressing non-mission critical problems, it may >>>>>>> appear to be to external testers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All we, as beta testers can do, is to make the organization aware of the >>>>>>> problems and hope that it will manage to address said problems in a >>>>>>> future >>>>>>> release. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my opinion, beta testing is a somewhat thankless job because, when >>>>>>> bugs >>>>>>> get squashed, no one pays attention to them or cares how or why they >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> resolved and when bugs remain, people think that the testers are not >>>>>>> testing >>>>>>> well enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me, beta testing, not just for Apple but for any company is my way of >>>>>>> showing appreciation for those things in life which I may now take for >>>>>>> granted; things like clean drinking water, electricity, personal >>>>>>> liberties, >>>>>>> talking ATM machines, audio-described movies, screen readers, >>>>>>> refreshable >>>>>>> Braille displays, smart phones, hearing aids, medicine, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Beta testing is also my way of showing my respect for those blind and >>>>>>> low-vision pioneers who came before me and it is a means by which I may, >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> some small part, leave a legacy to those who will follow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, when a product is released with a number of bugs, please try to keep >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> mind that were it not for beta testers, that number would most likely be >>>>>>> much higher. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone >>>>>>> list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if >>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>> or >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter at: >>>> www.twitter.com/wcmerritt >>>> My website: >>>> www.wayneism.com >>>> My book list: >>>> www.wayneism.com/books.php >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> Christopher (CJ) >> chaltain at Gmail >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > Sent from a Braille Sense > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the VIPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your VIPhone list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
