On 10/04/2013 01:56 PM, Pablo Morales wrote:
Thanks Jonathan.
You explained it with better words. You have been clear, direct, and
objective to this point. Any body has rights on our property. We have
in the constitution the right for the property. Any body can fill the
storage memory of our devices with data that can not be remove, and the
only way to remove it is installing the operated system that
apple imposed to us. Apple created the way to push us to buy new
devices, making the iPhone 4 very slows, and downloading data to our
devices, filling space in our iDevices, and the only way to remove the
data stored in our devices is installing the operated system.
Raul, what did I game?
I don't see a lot of benefits in hand writing, or in the control center,
or in, what else?
Now if the cup is half empty or half full. Obviously is almost empty,
because the number of bugs of IOs 7 are a lot, not a few. The iPhone 4
is very slow, and apple forced me to install the IOs 7 downloading it
and filling the memory of my iPhone, without my permission.
Neal , yes, is a way that is worse. the way is download the IOs 7
without our authorizations to our iPhones, filling memory space. Is no
way to remove that data fill by apple without our authorizations, the
way to do it, is installing the update, and pressing double tab on the
agree button. So, yes, is another way to do it. It is call forcing
people to press the agree button.
Alan, no, of course it doesn't install automatically. But it download
automatically. The way to recover that space, is obligate the people to
press double tab on the agree button.
Why I got an apple phone?
Because when I bought it, it was working nicely. But it is in the pass,
now apple forced me to install the update, filling my memory store with
an update that I didn't want to use. Now, If I buy the phone seeing how
it works now?
Never.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Jonathan Mosen <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Friday, October 04, 2013 12:24 PM
*Subject:* Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS 6 holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Hi everyone, I have a lot more sympathy for Pablo's position than
many of you seem to have. Since I paid to test iOS 7, I was prepared
for the onslaught of negativity that I think is pretty justified for
a release that has more serious VoiceOver bugs than any other I can
remember.
As a tester, I could always go back, so as Raul very nicely put it,
I could decide whether I viewed the cup as half full or half empty,
or in other words, did the very real benefits offered in 7 outweigh
the annoying bugs that might tempt me to go back to 6. In the end, I
decided that I'd stick with 7, knowing that there'd be a point where
that decision was final and there'd be no turning back. This is a
decision that i took that is personal to me, based on the way I use
my particular device. Other's might make a different choice. That's
if they had the choice to make, of course.
End users had a relatively short time to evaluate iOS 7 and its
impact on daily usage before it became impossible to revert to 6.
When you throw a screen reader into the mix, that evaluation process
is even more complex.
The irony is that if your iOS device malfunctioned, and you needed
to get it replaced with a refurbished unit, if it's an iPhone 5 it
would come with iOS 6 on it today. So indirectly, Apple is
signalling that the way to get iOS 6 back again is to subtly break
your phone in a way that doesn't put it out of warranty.
If I upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8, and find that the benefits
don't outweigh some of the annoyances I have with the new user
interface, I'm free to downgrade again if I have my Windows 7
install disks. Apple is entitled to do things differently, of
course, but customers are also entitled to call them out for
draconian and disadvantageous practices. There may be an argument to
be made that in the interests of security, Apple needs everyone to
update, but security issues are minimal compared with other devices,
at least, that's what Apple keeps telling us. If we've tried what
Apple is offering and don't like it, I believe we should not be
prevented from reverting to what we had before. Apple needs to earn
our adoption of iOS 7 by making it a quality product with features
we need, not through brute-force tactics.
And make no mistake, brute-force tactics are what they're employing.
I've been interested to read people seemingly disputing the notion
that iOS 7 is being downloaded without users consent. This is
absolutely what is occurring. It's not new with iOS 7 but that
doesn't necessarily make it right. You have to agree to the license
agreement and choose to install, but Pablo's very valid point, in my
view, is that you have a 3GB OS sitting there on your phone, taking
up valuable storage, which even if you don't install, you can't
delete. I don't believe that's appropriate or right. 3GB is a little
under 20% of the storage available to you on a 16GB iPhone. There is
no toggle for over the air updates, so the OS is sitting there,
taking up a lot of space on your phone. How do you resolve it? You
install the OS, then the storage is freed up again. Brute-force
tactics, especially when there's no way to disable over the air
updates.
I somehow think that if Microsoft did this, people would be all over
it.
Whether iOS 7 represents an upgrade or a downgrade will depend on a
bunch of personal preferences. The reality is, though, that there
are a number of bugs and functional changes that for some will make
the device a less attractive experience than when they purchased it.
They may have evaluated it in the store, and on the basis of what
they experienced, made the purchase. Now, that experience has
changed for the worse in the minds of some people. Those people
should be able to revert if they wish, and Apple should be made to
earn their trust in the new OS. They are the customer, customer
satisfaction is king.
I know that English is a second language for Pablo and perhaps he is
struggling to get his point across. But as far as I'm concerned he
has it right. While I wouldn't choose to downgrade despite the many
issues, he should have the right to do so if he wishes, and in no
way should any user have an OS download they don't want on their
device taking up space that they can't recover.
I accept Apple's way of doing things in the interests of the whole
"it just works" philosophy, and extra security compared with the
competition, but this is a step too far.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org
On 5/10/2013, at 4:41 AM, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca
<mailto:siegh...@live.ca>> wrote:
Hi Gary,
You can still enter contacts and even edit them, the bug is that
you can't
apparently move the cursor in a few fields and I hope you have
sent an email
to Apple Accessible outlining the issue in a constructive,
non-confrontational way. This is a bit like a democratic political
system
which, I understand, the US once had (sorry, couldn't resist that
one).
Anyhow, what I mean is that if I hear people complain about the
government,
the first thing I do is ask whether they voted at the last
election. If they
say No I usually tell them to shut up because they really don't
have a right
to complain since they didn't participate in selecting the
government. OK,
so Apple is no democracy, but the prinziple is the same, unless you
participate in sending emails to Apple Accessibility, you can't
really
complain about the bugs. As Ricardo or Richard (I forget who)
pointed out,
the iPhone 5S and 5C only came out 2 weeks ago today and Apple
gives you a
generous 30 days to return a product. So, if you don't like it and
think you
can find another phone which offers you better accessibility, just
return
your iPhone.
We must also not forget that Apple is a huge company. They have many
departments, divisions and teams and while I am sure they all try
their best
to work together, there often are rivaleries and such going on
between
various product teams. I am quite convinced that the accessibility
team
would prefer to have twice as much money and twice as many people
to make
accessibility the best there is, but they have to do what they can
with what
they have and while they might have a fix for an issue, Apple is
unlikely to
push out an update with one or two Voiceover fixes only. If
history is right
and it usually is, we are now probably only 4 or 5 weeks away from
iOS 7.1
which in the past years always included accessibility fixes along
with other
feature improvements and bug fixes.
I think it's important especially in the weeks after a new iOS
first comes
out to send lots of feedback to Apple Accessibility so they can
see where
the bugs are and how to prioritize them. This is why it's also
important
that everybody who reads about a bug should try to reproduce it
and if they
can which in the case of editing Contacts seems to be the case,
they should
send in an email and not just take the lazy approach and think "Oh
well, I'm
sure a few others already did so I don't have to". If Apple gets
500 emails
about this and only 50 about something else I am pretty convinced
that the
problem reported by 500 people will be higher up in the list than
the
problem reported by 50.
Regards,
Sieghard
-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com>] On
Behalf
Of Gary Petraccaro
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:24 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS 6
holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Only one person said that it downloaded and loaded. The rest of
those of us
who are concerned here either loaded the software and regret it or
are
waiting and having limited space taken up by whatever got
downloaded.
I'm not at all sure that had I known that I would have trouble
entering
contacts as has been described on this list, that I would have
chosen to buy
this phone. What's easily gotten around by the experienced is not
so by a
newby. Now, I came in with my contacts having been transferred
from my
previous phone. It's now not as big a deal as it would have been
when I was
first getting a phone and entering most of my contacts, but it
might very
easily not have been that way. I want a phone that's a
convenience not a
chore. I use a computer and don't tinker much. This looks like a
decided
step backwards.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Ewers" <neal.ew...@ravenswood.org
<mailto:neal.ew...@ravenswood.org>>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS 6
holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Raul. Nice post, and a question. Are there any ways in which
Apple would
load a new iOS without someone pressing the I agree button or other
buttons
as well? To hear people tell it, this magically happens in the
night with
no
knowledge of the user. Yes? No? Can we lay this one to rest at
last, but
then I think that's what your previous message actually did. I
was just
curious if this had actually happened to anyone though I cannot
think that
it has.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com>] On
Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:25 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS
6
holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Hi Pablo, you might consider the glass of water analogy. Is it
half-empty
for you or half-full for you? Are you a half-empty thinker?
It certainly seems like it by the tone of your messages. I'm more
of a
half-full thinker. yes, there are bugs with new iOS releases, but
seriously
dude, are the bugs worse than what you gain? And if that is true,
then why
did you update? I'm not talking about the fact that Apple
downloaded the
iOS
on your phone to be ready, I'm talking about your willingness to
choose to
instal, choose to agree to the terms that I bet you didn't read,
and then
choose to use iOS7. Apple didn't force your fingers to tap the
install and
the agree button. And in face, there are two agree buttons just
to make
sure. So, my friend, you had a choice to upgrade. Now live with
it. if
this
sounds harsh, so be it. If you look at the glass as half-full you
will see
that despite the bugs, iOS 7 does have a lot of nice things to
offer.
Also,
the bugs will get worked out given some time. yes, Apple may have
pushed
it
out quickly, but seriously, the majority of the millions of users
who use
the iPhone daily love it fine and don't complain about it because
it's
what
they want.
This isn't a personal attack on you, obviously you have the right
to
express
your opinion, and that's what I'm doing as well, but maybe you
should
consider that there is good in the new release and not all bad.
You did the exact same thing with iOS 6 when you upgraded to it.
So, this
leads me to believe that you always think negatively. If you hate
Apple
and
iPhones so much, why do you even bother having one?
--
Raul A. Gallegos
I don't think I could kill someone. Let's face it, the closest
I've got to
murder is holding an Oreo under the milk until the bubbles stop.
- Sheldon
Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47
On 10/4/2013 3:43 AM, Pablo Morales wrote:
Well, it could be ridiculous for you. Even though, when I see
that the
IOs is downloaded automatically to my iPhone, without my
agreement,
and it is filling space in my iPhone, and is no way to remove that
information stored in my iPhone, I don't see so ridiculous my
email.
Either apple.
When an IOs update appear, every body is looking for improvements
in
the operated system, we are not looking for bugs, or steps back
in our
devices. So I don't see so ridiculous my email. Less when the
apple
devices are the more expensive devices, no when apple is a company
that sales iDevices for a price that for the most part of the
people
on the world, are impossible.
When you say that apple give us the right to use their software,
but
at the same time they are storing data in my iPhone with out my
permission, and the only way to make that space free is
installing the
IOs 7, is not a freedom, it is not a right the god apple gives
to us.
This is a command from apple.
so I don't see so ridiculous my email.
when we install a new IOs, every body is waiting improvements, not
bugs, and not bunches of bugs as IOs 7 has. Even though, as you
say,
apple give us the right to use their software, thing that is not a
right, it is a command, but their software is not working well,
but we
are not able to go back to the IOs that was working better, it is
a
right?
No, it is not a right, it is a command.So, I don't see my email,
ridiculous .
Do not forget something. The device that you use, wasn't free. You
paid for that, and you paid money that is not a little bit of
money,
it was money that could be the payment for a whole year of work
in many
countries on the world. Money that you paid, and it is money
that you
paid because you were buying a good device. No a cheaper device.
So, I don't see my email as you said. ridiculous .
But let me tell you in my opinion what is ridiculous .
ridiculous is when we pay to a company that created a good
software,
a good hardware, hardware and software that made a difference in
your
life. But later they changed the software, and you start to get
problems with many things in your device, but you fill ok, because
every IOs bring bugs. It is ridiculous , because you didn't pay
with
money cracked, you didn't paid it with a check without funds, you
paid it with money, good money.
What right are you talking about. They installed the data in my
iPhone, without my agreement, they offert a good IOs, but it
brings a
lot of bugs, and they don't allow us to come back to the
software that
they created, that works better is a right?
No, it is not a right.
On Oct 3, 2013, at 10:02 PM, John Diakogeorgiou
<jdiakoge2...@gmail.com <mailto:jdiakoge2...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Pablo your email is ridiculous. first of all no one said you had
to
update your software. That was your choice. Second of all you
don't
own the software you own the phone and Apple is giving you the
right
to use their software. The software works quite well. Yes a few
bugs
exist but you should have been aware of them when you chose to
use
the software.
On 10/3/13, Alan Paganelli <alanandsuza...@earthlink.net
<mailto:alanandsuza...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
So is it running slow on the 5s as well?
-------
Regards,
Alan
Go Chicago Bears in 2013!
Teenagers; Tired of being harassed by your stupid parents? Act
now!!!!!
Move out. Get a job. Pay your bills wile you still know
everything.
Please click on:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/
<http://www.home.earthlink.net/%7Ealanandsuzanne/>
There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and
performances
played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics
format formerly on my
website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricardo Walker" <rwalker...@gmail.com>
To: "viphone" <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS 6
holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Hi,
I haven't seen apps take 5 seconds to open on an iPhone 4S
using IOS
7. Is
it slower than my iPhone 5? Yes. But, I think 5 seconds to
open
most apps
is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure, some apps might take a
while,
the more resource intensive ones, but, definitely not the
majority
of apps.
JMO.
Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info
On Oct 2, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Pablo Morales
<pablomorale...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Also, 5 seconds is too much. We have to use the iPhone when
we are
on the
streets, when we are going to the store, when we get a ride,
and we
need the gps, So 5 seconds is too much. Now, if in the newer
versions of iPhone takes around 2 seconds, I would like to
know,
why?
The new things of IOs 7 is enough to make slower the phones?
maybe the graphic appearance?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Sullivan"
<troysulliva...@gmail.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS
6 holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
On my 4s, I notice apps take about 5 seconds to load, not
right
away, it
could be because I have an older phone though. I'm not able to
upgrade without a discount until 2015 though so I will deal.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris H"
<christopher...@gmail.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: About iOS 7, is it really so bad? was: Apple now
forcing iOS
6 holdouts to upgrade to iOS 7.
Agreed. Apps took under five seconds to load on a 4, but
under
two on a
4s. So over half the time is cut between each phone.
E-mail Facebook and iMessage
christopher...@gmail.com
On 02/10/2013 13:47, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
Apps are taking up to 50 seconds to start running? Hmm, that
sounds like you need to restore and start over. Even if
iOS runs
slower on older phones, apps won't take 50 seconds to
start up.
i just can't buy that.
--
Raul A. Gallegos
Oh I'm not arguing, I'm simply explaining why I'm right. -
Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47
On 9/30/2013 10:25 AM, Pablo Morales wrote:
Yes, IOs 7 is good running on new devices like iPhone 4s,
5
and 5s, but this new IOs make slower the iPhone 4, and is
very
annoying try to run what ever app when voice over works so
slow, when what ever app takes until 50 seconds to start
opening, and when we have to try and try several times to
run
an app. Is obvious that IOs 7 is heavy for the processor
that
the iPhone 4 has, so make an update of operated system
will be
good for the users who has iDevices with processors
relative
new, but not every body is in position of go to buy an
iPhone
5s, or pay around 800$ every years when ever apple create
an
new device. We are customers, and customers of apple
doesn't
mean richness.
Is a lot of people who had to make a very hard effort to
buy an
iPhone, so why apple is trying to make those devices
slower,
and push them to buy new devices with faster processors
to run
what ever IOs apple wants?
We are the owners of our iDevices, we are not renting those
devices, so if I paid for that device, why apple has
rights on
my property?
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