No Chris. It is not maybe true. It is true. Period.
I paid for that iPhone, or for that iPad, or for that iDevice, or for that
home, or for that parking lot. When you are talking about the city
authority, who wants to install electric wires to my home, and this wires
are for improve my life, is a good example. Even though it doesn't match the
case of apple. Let me explain you why.
1. An electric wire that will be crossing my property, to share electricity
with the community, it is something that will help the community, and the
government, has specific laws for this kind of situations, when a property
has to be affected in case of constructions of improvements to the
community. In all these cases, the government, local, state, or federal, has
to pay something to the owner of that property. Now, if the electric
installation, is only for me. I have the right to say, No, I don't want it.
Take your wires, transformer , and trucks and get out of my property. Of
course, in this case I will be living like the in the stone age. With out
electricity, with out air condition, refrigerator, TV an internet. Fatal.
But I have my choice, I am able to say, NO.
2. If the decision of say no will affect me, it is a risk that I have to
run. for example, if I like to live like in the stone age, ok, for me is
cool live like this. I do not have to let the city install wires on my home,
if I don't want.
3. In all cases, the installation of electric wires is with the intention of
improve life, life quality. Now, what is the price that I have to pay for
that improvement?
How much will be that improvement?
Really the improvement worth the effort?
In the case of an iPhone 4s, or 5s, the improvement will be good, or maybe
the effects will not be so bad. But in the case of an iPhone 4, the effects
would be worse.
Again, with the case of the wires and trucks and transformer in your back
yard. If the effects of install a transformater in your back yard, will be
that you will miss your flowers, that they will cut your apple trees, and
you will miss the space to place your motorcycle, then the effect will not
be so good.
Again, how much I have to pay for the electric wires on my home?
I really need it?
Now, and ending.
In the license agreement, anywhere says something about download data
without agreement. Every time, when you press the agree button, you are
accepting the conditions for that IOs version. But in this case, the
download is not for the IOs that you agreed, it is for the next IOs, that
you didn't agree yet.
Here is the issue. Apple downloaded it to our devices, without our
agreement. When we didn't agree the license agreement of that download. We
accepted, the conditions of the previous IOs, but not for the IOs that apple
downloaded without our agreement. Let me be a little bit more graphic. When
we installed Ios 6.x, we accepted the conditions and license of IOs 6, not
for IOs 7, or IOs 8, or IOs 2000. Our agreement was only for IOs 6. Even
though, anywhere in the license agreement, say anything about download
software, of the following IOs version, IOs that we didn't agree yet,
download that we never authorized.
Again. Anywhere in the license agreement, says anything related with the
following IOs updates, anywhere says that we are accepting that they can
download data of the following IOs, IOs that we didn't agree yet. It is
their first mistake.
Their second mistake, is that they do not provide any way to remove the IOs,
that we never agree, we agreed the version of IOs that we were using, for
example 6.x. But we didn't agree the IOs 7 yet, any way, they downloaded
without our authorization. Apple should provide a way to remove the IOs that
we do not want to use, IOs that we do not want to agree the license
agreement. I want to use the IOs that I like,no the IOs that apple wants,
the IOs that I feel me conftable, and I signed and agreed it. But When I
bought the iPhone, anywhere says anything about that is mandatory use the
IOs that they want. No, it doesn't say anywhere. Also in the license
agreement of each IOs, we accept and agree the license of that IOs, not of
the following IOs updates. In the United States, no body can create
contracts that cover future modifications without agreement. Every time,
when somebody wants to change the rules of a contract, they have to
participate it for all parts. An Apple didn't this at any time. Apple never
asked us about download an IOs that can not be remove of the memory. It can
not be deleted, until we, mandatory, install it in our iDevice.
Apple didn't asked me about IOs updates mandatory, they didn't ask me about
downloads without agreement, apple never asked about download data that is
not possible to remove, until we update the IOs.
So are many mistakes here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chalt...@gmail.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Tim Cook Being Sued over Automatic iOS 7 Updates
I think there are several issues with this. First, you're thinking of your
iPhone as property. That may be true assuming you remove IOS from it and
don't sign up for any other services on it. When you buy an iPhone you get
IOS, you agree to it's terms and conditions and you participate in all of
the services that come with the Apple ecosystem.
Go into Settings -> General -> About -> Legal -> License and you'll see
that you're licensing IOS and not buying it. You'll also see that IOS
software includes updates and that it includes space taken up on all
media. You'll also see that you have the right to return your iPhone
within a certain period if you don't agree with the terms and conditions
of this license.
You say that Apple is using your resources and your property without your
permission. I think by agreeing to the license when you installed IOS 7 or
when you purchased your iPhone you are indeed giving Apple permission to
use your iPhone for IOS, it's updates and associated services.
I don't get your analogy about Bill Gates and his parking lot, but I see
things a bit differently. Sure, when I buy a house, I'm buying property.
When I sign up for services from my municipality, I don't sue the city for
running pipes or electric lines to my house, hanging meters off the side
of my house or putting a transformer box in the corner of my lot.
I don't see anything in this issue that implies there's a class war going
on here between the wealthy and the rest of us. I see it as an issue of
definitions. Apple thinks you're licensing the right to use their software
and all that that applies, while others think of their iPhone as a piece
of property. I guess if people are going to bring law suits over this, the
courts will determine where these lines are drawn, but I think this notion
of property doesn't take into account the services that are bundled with a
device.
On 10/19/2013 03:09 AM, Pablo Morales wrote:
Hi Chris.
Well, I don't think that the only who has right to feel this issue of
download the IOs without agreement is a violation is the people with
iPhones or iDevices of 8 or 16 GB.
What could happen if you use the property of Bill Gates to store your
things, without his agreement?
What could happen to you, if you place a car in the Bill gates parking
lot, in his little home in Washington State?
For sure he has a big parking lot, for sure he has a lot of properties.
Now, because of that he should feel that you did is not a illegal action?
For sure he will take legal actions against you. In the laws of United
States, the property right is one of the fundamentals right in our
constitution, and it is a right in the most countries on the world.
What apple is doing, is using the resources of our devices, downloading
bunches of data, storing it in the memory of our devices, without our
agreement. No body can use your property without your agreement. More
over, is no way to remove the data that apple stored in our devices,
unless we install the operated system.
Try to place a car in the Bill Gate parking lot, and keep it there until
Bill Gates buy your car. Tell Bill Gates that you will not remove your
car of his parking lot, until he pay you for that car, and tell me what
happen.
The law should be apply for every body, not just with the people who is
not rich. The law is also for the people who is braking rights, not
matter if they are apple, Bill Gates or Chris.
So, the problem here is not if our iDevices are of 8 or 64Gb. The point
here is that apple is violating a right of property, and not providing a
solution for the people who doesn't want to install IOs what ever
version they release. When I say it, I mean, not providing a way to
remove the data stored in the iDevices.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris H" <christopher...@gmail.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: Tim Cook Being Sued over Automatic iOS 7 Updates
Hope this goes well, but I still believe in the notion that one is not
actually forced into the update; they are just forced to have it
downloaded to their device and take, to some, a considerable amount of
space on their device. I can understand this being an issue for 8 GB and
16 GB devices, but for the rest of you, deal with it and maybe you will
install it in your own time. Remember, the update is only downloaded,
not installed, to one's device, since one have to agree to the terms of
conditions not once, but twice. If the update got installed
automatically, then yes I would support the man suing Tim Cook. But not
sure on this case.
E-mail Facebook and iMessage
christopher...@gmail.com
On 19/10/2013 06:57, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
Given the extensive discussion here about Apple downloading automatic
updates to devices, I thought some might be interested to know that a
number of news outlets are reporting that a California man is taking
Tim Cook to Small Claims Court over this issue. He's asking for $50 in
compensation and for Apple to address the issue, so he's obviously not
doing this to get rich.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org
--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
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