Re: Mechanical Turk, CamFind, TapTapSee and developers responsibilities -was- Re: TapTapSee

Christopher Chaltain Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:19:28 -0800

I don't think it's much like buying a car, although if gas prices werehigh enough, maybe gas companies would give away cars and you'd justhave to pay for the gas from them to run your car. I don't think this isa new trend, but when your selling a service or content rather than apiece of hardware or a stand alone software application, it's frequentlythe case that you give away the hardware or the application and thencharge for the service or the content.


On 11/11/2013 04:00 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:

The app is free, but you can't do anything with it unless you pay?Sounds like buying a car and being told that you have to pay extra forthe engine, wheels and tires. But that seems to be the trend, as manydevelopers are doing this, i. e. the Seeing Eye GPS app, and thevarious sports apps such as MLB At bat, NFL Audio Pass, and NBA GameTime.


Andy


-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:41 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: Mechanical Turk, CamFind, TapTapSee and developersresponsibilities -was- Re: TapTapSee


Hi Carol,

No, the app continues to be free, but you pay for using the service. You
really have to think of this as a service not an app because all the app

does is to provide an interface for taking the picture and passing iton toTap Tap See's servers. Here the picture is now recognized, quite oftenby areal person who gets paid for providing the description, then theresult is

sent back to your phone where it is announced and displayed in the app.

Tap Tap See has been paying for this and they tried to fund this frommaybeother revenues they received, but it came to a point where they eitherhad

to start charging or shut the service down completely.

If you use Tap Tap See only occasionally you are better off buyingtheir 100

picture package for $7.99. You basically pay 8 Cents for each picture you
send and receive a reply/description.

If you use Tap Tap See a whole lot you can pay a monthly flat rate of$9.99for unlimited use which means you pay $9.99 whether you take nopictures or

1,000 pictures.
The math is easy. At 8 Cents a picture, 125 pictures would cost you $10
which is the cost for the monthly subscription. If you take less than 125

pictures a month you are better off paying for actual use and to buythe 100picture pack. The other good thing is of course that the 100 pictureswon'tgo away, if you only take 2 one month and 20 the next then you stillhave 78left and if you never took another picture for the next 3 months thenafter

5 months you still had 78 pictures. If you pay $9.99 then you can take

unlimited pictures for the next 30 days, but if you only used 50, youcould

have done so for a lot less.


Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] OnBehalf

Of Carol Forrester
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:38 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mechanical Turk, CamFind, TapTapSee and developers
responsibilities -was- Re: TapTapSee

can someone explain this when it says to buy credits, what does this
actually mean is it not an outright price for the app? Carol
On 11 Nov 2013, at 04:37, Wayne gmail <ewaynebrum...@gmail.com> wrote:

If a developer waited until the app was perfect in the mind of every
customer before releasing it, we would have no apps. In this casethe app
was free for a year and everyone had a great opportunity to decide if it

is

acceptable or not.  Now the customer has to decide if it is worth the

money

to him or her.  Should really does not really enter it.  We've seen it,

know

how it works and should decide individually if that is how we choose to
spend our money.  Quietly decide I hope.  Thanks.

Wayne

-----Original Message-----

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] OnBehalf

Of John Diakogeorgiou
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mechanical Turk, CamFind, TapTapSee and developers
responsibilities -was- Re: TapTapSee

Cara I am not saying that the developer shouldn't provide suggestions on

how

to take pictures or in general use their product. However, theyshould not
be held responsible if I am not able to interpret how to use the product

or

parts of the software. So in this vain they should not have to notcharge
for a picture just because it is blurry or not centered enough to be of

any

use.

On 11/10/13, TapTapSee <dmit...@taptapseeapp.com> wrote:

Cara,

Our technology involves computer vision and crowdsourcing. Also, we do
not use volunteers.

On another note, we are currently compiling a list of tips that we'll
be adding to our website in the next week. This will be an ongoing
effort to help those users that have difficulty taking pictures with

their

iDevices.

We believe that if we, as a community, all get together and share the
best tips about taking picture, then we can have a very good resource
for everyone. We believe that if we all come together to help each
other understand the process of photography better, then everyone wins.

Best Wishes,
TapTapSee

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:25:23 AM UTC-8, Cara wrote:


HI John and All,

While I have no problems with a subscription for this app, the idea
that charging the visually impaired based on their abilities to take
good pictures being not at all the developer's responsibility is not
quite accurate.

As a developer who is involved with recognition apps myself, Even
though we do not have a pay model, like TapTapSee, we absolutely take
the idea of

asking the blind / VI people to take their own images very, very
seriously.

So in my opinion, yes, this is actually somewhat a developers
responsibility, especially if these images are a paid service and
that service depends on both the quality of said images which are
submitted, and also the information about those images which is
returned to the customer.


Again this is my own opinion and I do think TapTapSee is taking steps
to offer constructive tips and solutions for the population benefited
by this

app to educate VI people in how to take better / more usable images.
I do

think many suggestions offered here, in order to improve the user
experience, are very good. So it's my hope that TapTapSee will take
these

to heart and implement them. I'm sure they will as they seem to be a
responsive and caring company as their dialogue here has shown.

I'm assuming they will also begin offering a subscription model for
CamFind (which is also from the same company) as well which may also
offset the operating costs of TapTapSee so perhaps the new pay model
will be evolving over time to something that all of those who need
this app will find  useful, convenient and affordable.

I'd also like to include a link below to Amazon Mechanical Turk,
which offers a service for developers to access human capabilities
for just this

type of recognition. Now I'm not saying that this is the exact
service that TapTapSee is offering but I am saying that this may give
many users here some idea of what is happening behind the scenes to
power this app so that

you get your descriptions back from the images you send. I think it's
always a good idea to know what is happening with what products you
use so

that you can be an educated consumer. This is especially important
for the

visually impaired in my opinion, as the community has unfortunately
from time to time, seen both over and under inflated costs for
necessary services. I.E. either products or services being basically
handed out for

nothing or way over-priced.

Anyway, knowing about the products and services you need is very easy
currently so here now, is the link to Mechanical Turk, check it out!
:)

Have an awesome night / weekend and linkie is below!

Smiles,

Cara :)

http://aws.amazon.com/mturk/faqs/


On Nov 9, 2013, at 9:01 PM, John Diakogeorgiou
<jdiako...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
wrote:

It may be that it's harder for a blind person to take pictures but
that's not the developers problem. Whether we take a good picture or
not they still have to analyse it and give us feedback. And yes we
can over time learn how to take better pictures. We can learn for
example if we have the phone to close to the page, or if it's not
straight, etc. That can be done with a different package which
doesn't cost money. In fact with technology it has been proven that
yes we can even drive a car (probably better than some of the sighted
people out
there.)

On 11/9/13, Andy Baracco <wq...@socal.rr.com <javascript:>> wrote:

This comment is ridiculous. certainly anyone with a brain knows
that a

blind

person is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to something
like

taking

pictures. Penalyzing a blind person for taking poor photos is like

asking a

blind person to drive and penalyzing him for having a trafficaccident.



Andy

From: David Chittenden
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 3:23 PM
To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
Subject: Re: TapTapSee
So, I am trying to understand your comment.

If I interpret your argument correctly, you appear to be saying

TapTapSee

should be responsible for the factors which make it more difficult
for

you

to take a good picture of the appropriate item. At no point during
your

argument do you acknowledge the fact that TapTapSee must spend the
same

resources to identify, or attempt identification, whether the
picture is

the

picture you intended or not. In fact, the images which are more

difficult to

ascertain require more resources to be used, so your not-so-good

pictures

actually cost the company more to process compared with your good,

precise

pictures.
Actually, TapTapSee is offering an unlimited package for $10 permonth.

In

other words, they are willing to be responsible for your errors at
just

small premium above the 100 picture package.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchit...@gmail.com <javascript:>
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 10 Nov 2013, at 11:08, "Dawn Petty"
<petty...@comcast.net<javascript:>>

wrote:



the problem I have is I am physically disabled and sometimes my
camera

is

aiming at something else rather than the selected object.


From: Bill Gallik
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 2:37 PM
To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
Subject: Re: TapTapSee

Personally, I would much rather use DigitEyes for identifying
specific,

in-hand products.
----------------
Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Ideas are the beginning points of all fortunes."
- Napoleon Hill, American author in the area of the new thought

movement,

1883-1970
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Alan Paganelli
  To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 12:50 PM
  Subject: Re: TapTapSee

  Ok here's my question.  I may have to take several pictures
moving

the

iPhone forward, backward, left or right only to hear can of chili.

That's

helpful but not very informative. If I under stand you then that
would

be a

successful image and thus I'd be charged for that picture when in

reality,

I'm looking for can is Hormel Chili no beans.  I don't have a
problem paying.  I'm not looking for something for nothing.  I'm
just concerned

that

I get the information I need with out being over charged.  With the

hundred

picture plan at 8 cents a picture and it takes me ten shots to get
it

right,

then it would cost me 80 cents just to find out what's inside thatcan.

The

same thing with boxes etc.  Box of cereal is not what I need to know.

Box

of Kellogg Frosted Flakes is.
  -------

  Regards,

  Alan

  Go Chicago Bears in 2013!

  Teenagers; Tired of being harassed by your stupid parents?  Act

now!!!!!

Move out.  Get a job.  Pay your bills wile you still know everything.

  Please click on:
  http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/
  There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and
performances

played

on
  the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard.  The albums in Technics format
formerly

on

my website are still available upon request.  Thanks for listening!

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: TapTapSee
    To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
    Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 8:53 AM
    Subject: Re: TapTapSee

    Paula,
    We'll be releasing an update in the next 5-7 days that will
fix it

to

only count the successful pictures. Meaning, the pictures that
return an

identification to your phone.

    On Thursday, November 7, 2013 7:40:37 PM UTC-8, Paula Jordan

wrote:


      What about those pictures that come back as "failed"?  I was

trying

to get a picture yesterday and got the message that the picture had

timed

out. There were 5 or 6 of those timed out ones before I actually
got the

picture of the shirt logo which was what I was looking for.  Would
I be

charged for the failed pix if I use the 100 picture plan?

      God bless!

      Paula and Babe



      From: vip...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:vip...@googlegroups.com]

On

Behalf Of TapTapSee
      Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:46 PM
      To: vip...@googlegroups.com
      Subject: Re: TapTapSee



      Donna,

      It goes from the date of purchase. As you said, i.e. Nov.
7th to

Dec. 6th. Then when you attempt to take another picture after those

dates a

message for subscription will appear.

      On Thursday, November 7, 2013 1:12:52 PM UTC-8, mermaid7100

wrote:


      Hello



      Does the monthly $9.99 unlimited pictures subscription go
from

the

date of purchase to the same day the next month, ex. Nov. 7th to Dec.

6th?

Or from the first day in the month to the last day in a month, ex.Nov.

1st

to Nov. 30rd?



      Thanks



      Donna



        Hello Debbie,



        This is something someone else suggested today as well. It
is definitely something that we'll look into for a future update.
Thank you

for

the suggestion!

        On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:40:30 PM UTC-8, deb wrote:

        Hello,



        I was just wondering if there is some sort of counter that
is accessible to let you know how many pictures you have left if
you

purchase

the 100 picture package?



        Thank you!



        Debbie




-------------------------------------------------------------------
---

        From: vip...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:vip...@googlegroups.com]

On

Behalf Of TapTapSee
        Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 3:20 PM
        To: vip...@googlegroups.com
        Subject: Re: TapTapSee

        No, it does not have an expiration date. That package is
good until you run out of the 100 pictures.

        On Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:03:43 AM UTC-8,
Kramlinger,

Keith

G., M.D. wrote:

        Will the 100 picture option have a time limit or
expiration

date?





        From: vip...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:vip...@googlegroups.com]

On

Behalf Of TapTapSee
        Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:48 PM
        To: vip...@googlegroups.com
        Subject: Re: TapTapSee



        Due to the high costs of image recognition, we were forced
to change TapTapSee into a subscription based service. We will
continue to

improve our service in order to provide you with the high quality
tags

that

you've come to love and expect. The TapTapSee team is committed to

improving

the app based on the customer feedback and suggestions. In the next
few

days

a message will pop up on the app that will present you with twooption.
Option 1) 100 Picture Pack for $7.99. Option 2) 1 Month of
Unlimited Pictures for $9.99. The purchase is done through your
Apple iTunes

account.


        On Thursday, November 7, 2013 7:57:53 AM UTC-8,
rubyalphonse
wrote:

        Hi all, I am getting the message to purchase creditI was
happy

to

have this App, I will miss it very badlyI know, but, I feel if I
have to

subscribe, I think of not using TapTapSee. But I'm very upset about

this.

Why sudden change I wonder. Ruby

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Christopher (CJ)
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Re: Mechanical Turk, CamFind, TapTapSee and developers responsibilities -was- Re: TapTapSee

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