Your information about outspoken is very interesting, because I knew people there as well, who insisted that they got no help at all from Apple. And if you remember Bill Graham back in the Apple two days and I forget the name of the other software developer, they also claim to of gotten exactly 0 help or interest from Apple.I had heard that freedom scientific had been approached by Apple and gotten turned down. I guess it wasn't in their interest to develop something that competed with their expensive window screen reader. In any case, this is all ancient history. The important thing is what Apple is doing now, how quickly they're doing it, how committed they are to it etc. The recent updates to iOS eight with many bug fixes have renewed my faith to some degree. I am not so sure about the Mac side. It seems they keep breaking things in pages, and there is still no decent way to read anything but a rudimentary PDF on a Mac. Whether this is adobes or apples "fault" I really don't care. It needs to be fixed, since PDF is a big deal and is not, unlike flash, going away.
Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 20, 2014, at 9:36 PM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Your information about Apple's past regarding accessibility is not precisely > accurate. > > Apple placed a rudimentary screen reader in the Apple II back in 1983. I know > because I worked with it for a brief period of time during my first attempt > at university. It did not give me the same access as the $10,000 specialised > computer system, and as I was a computer systems student at the time, I > usually had priority on the better machine. > > In 1989, I managed a community college AT lab. I also managed the faculty > port server database for IT. One day, my IT boss summoned me to his office > where he demonstrated his nice new Macintosh. He loaded the built-in > screen-enlargement on the Mac (which Apple never advertised about, and showed > me how much better it was compared with the TSI Vista enlargement system I > maintained on one of the AT machines. At that time, I could see letters if > they were two to four on the monitor at a time. The mac enlargement was crisp > and clear, even at my magnification requirements. The Vista board system > caused pixelation around the edges of the letters. Also, the Mac system used > and followed the mouse precisely. We did not have a mouse on the Vista > machine. > > In the mid 90's, I learned from a cousin who is a Mac software engineer who > consulted for APPLE, that he was payed by Apple to interface with Berkeley > Systems so they would have the best possible interface with OutSpoken for Mac. > > After Berkeley Systems went out of business, and HumanWare (or was it Pulse > Data) decided not to continue OutSpoken for Mac (after purchasing the rights > of the software), Apple contacted Freedom Scientific attempting to get them > to develop the screen reader for OSX. Freedom Scientific refused, so Apple > decided to take Mac screen reader development in-house in 2002 / 2003. They > released VoiceOver for OSX Tiger in 2005, which speaks to a two year > screen-reader development cycle. > > Contrary to the common belief, the above history does not demonstrate a > company which was uninterested in accessibility. They often initially got it > wrong, but they were never not interested. > > Note: everything except my cousin's information can be located on the net. I > will not divulge my cousin's information as what was said I consider to be in > confidence (especially considering Apple's pathological need for privacy and > confidentiality. > > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 21 Nov 2014, at 16:26, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sadly, I knew people who had the old Apple computers back in the 80s, and >> also who had max running outspoken. It is a fact, so far as I understand it >> from people who know more than I do., That Apple did exactly nothing with >> respect to accessibility until after the feds past 508 and they woke up and >> smell the coffee and realized that they were going to lose out if they >> didn't develop something. Then, they did voiceover. For the Mac, and then >> the iPhone, and they have done an excellent job by and large, although with >> the Mac, there are still some problems. That isn't to say that Microsoft or >> anyone else did any better. I just want to make the point that Steve Jobs >> was not an angel. And for many years, Apple really did less than Microsoft >> with respect to helping the third-party developers who are trying to make >> the system accessible. >> Mary >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 1:29 PM, Mary Anne Lynskey <marlyn...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I have never found that the Droid system has been easy to use from playing >>> with my brother's phone. In fact, I have found it to be clumbsy and awkward >>> to navigate. Having stated that, I've not really learned how to use it >>> either and am just starting to do some homework on it now. I am hoping that >>> things improve before the time comes for me to decide. I think the problem >>> here is that Apple had raised the bar so high that we are all upset and >>> disappointed when things fall apart, as we should be. And yes, I still >>> think Steve J is a huge loss and even if the system was not good to start >>> with, it became far superior to anything out there on his watch. In fact, >>> my very first computer that I could use with good functionality way back in >>> the early 80's was the Apple IIe or IIc, can't remember which. That was >>> before MS really had much out there that was accessible and if IBM did, it >>> was very costly. So I think the apple founders truly did have accessibility >>> as a priority from the start. I do think that one person can make a big >>> difference in what a company does, its policies and its priorities, >>> especially if the person happen to be in Mr. J's position. That's my take >>> on the Steve J issue, a huge loss and too young. This new person in charge >>> needs to step up to the plate, fix what is broken and quit tinkering with >>> that stupid watch. >>> >>> Mary Anne >>> >>> >>>> On 11/19/2014 9:49 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>> Well, Google obviously never releases extremely bug-ridden software like >>>> Apple does, right? (see the below message). >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> *From:* MacDailyNews <comment-re...@wordpress.com >>>>> <mailto:comment-re...@wordpress.com>> >>>>> *Date:* 20 November 2014 14:59:33 NZDT >>>>> *To:* dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>> *Subject:* *[New post] ‘Shockingly bad’ Google Android 5.0 Lollipop >>>>> update bricks phones, tablets; kills apps* >>>>> *Reply-To:* "MacDailyNews" >>>>> <comment+e60benyponb65mhj-j_lcs...@comment.wordpress.com >>>>> <mailto:comment+e60benyponb65mhj-j_lcs...@comment.wordpress.com>> >>>>> >>>>> WordPress.com >>>>> MacDailyNews posted: "[cfsp key="adsense_336x280"]"Early adopters of >>>>> Google's latest Android operating system are warning others of problems >>>>> with the software," Leo Kelion reports for The Beeb. "Issues include the >>>>> update causing Nexus 7 tablets to run slowly and repeatedly cra" >>>>> Respond to this post by replying above this line >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> New post on *MacDailyNews* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ‘Shockingly bad’ Google Android 5.0 Lollipop update bricks >>>>> phones, tablets; kills apps >>>>> >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/> >>>>> >>>>> by MacDailyNews <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/> >>>>> >>>>> [cfsp key="adsense_336x280"]"Early adopters of Google's latest Android >>>>> operating system are warning others of problems with the software," Leo >>>>> Kelion reports for The Beeb. "Issues include the update causing Nexus 7 >>>>> tablets to run slowly and repeatedly crash, with several users >>>>> complaining they had become 'unusable.'" >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews Take: *Even more so than usual, apparently. >>>>> >>>>> "The code also appears to remove apps built with Adobe Air and then >>>>> prevent them from being reinstalled," Kelion reports. "Dozens of messages >>>>> posted to Google's own forums suggest that owners of the 2012 version of >>>>> the Nexus 7, in particular, are experiencing headaches. 'Some apps won't >>>>> work and some crash. I wish I didn't install the update,' wrote Kristen >>>>> Sawyer. Another user, nicknamed StretchToo said: 'Chrome is dead, >>>>> unusable, Firefox just about works, the keyboard takes over a minute to >>>>> load, nearly works if you hunt and peck but dies if you try to swipe.'" >>>>> >>>>> "'Updated and the Nexus is [so] shockingly bad it is basically unusable, >>>>> lags just rotating the screen, every task takes 10 seconds to perform if >>>>> it does it [at all],' wrote Gary Looker," Kelion reports. "Several >>>>> Android Lollipop users have also highlighted compatibility problems with >>>>> Air-based apps... Reports elsewhere suggest some users are experiencing >>>>> problems with text messages, the way contacts are managed, and wi-fi >>>>> connectivity." >>>>> >>>>> *Read more in the full article here >>>>> <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30116319>.* >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews Take: *It's well past time to stop settling for >>>>> inferior wares and get the iPhone 6, 6 Plus, iPad Air 2, and/or >>>>> iPad mini that you really wanted but stupidly tried to >>>>> approximate, fragmandroid settlers. >>>>> >>>>> Pry open thou eyes, casteth aside thine darkness and >>>>> cometh-hither into the light! >>>>> >>>>> [Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader "buddabob" for the heads up.] >>>>> >>>>> *Related articles:* >>>>> Apple posts new how-to guide: Switching from Android phone to iPhone >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/apple-posts-new-how-to-guide-switching-from-android-phone-to-iphone/> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> Reviewers fall all over themselves to praise Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6/Plus >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/reviewers-fall-all-over-themselves-to-praise-apples-64-bit-iphone-6plus/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus tested at Disneyland: ‘So badass’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/iphone-6-iphone-6-plus-tested-at-disneyland-so-badass/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Re/code reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6 Plus: ‘A statement phone,’ not a >>>>> ‘plastic toy’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/recode-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-plus-a-statement-phone-not-a-plastic-toy/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Megapixels mean nothing: Apple iPhone 6 trounces Samsung Galaxy S5 in >>>>> camera shootout >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/megapixels-mean-nothing-apple-iphone-6-trounces-samsung-galaxy-s5-in-camera-shootout/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> The Telegraph reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6 Plus: ‘It’s peerless’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/the-telegraph-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-plus-its-peerless/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> TechCrunch reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best smartphone >>>>> available’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/techcrunch-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-available/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> USA Today’s Baig reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6/Plus: ‘Smartphone stars’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/usa-todays-baig-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6plus-smartphone-stars/> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Walt Mossberg reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best smartphone on >>>>> the market’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/walt-mossberg-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-on-the-market/> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> The Wall Street Journal reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best >>>>> smartphone you can buy’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/the-wall-street-journal-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-you-can-buy/> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> Macworld reviews 64-bit iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus: Bigger is better (in >>>>> the right hands) >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/macworld-reviews-64-bit-iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-bigger-is-better-in-the-right-hands/> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/>* | >>>>> Wednesday, November 19, 2014 at 8:59 pm | Tags: android >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=android>, App Store knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-knockoffs>, App Store roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-roadkill>, App Store wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-wannabes>, Apple >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=apple>, crappy Android phones >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=crappy-android-phones>, crappy Android >>>>> tablets <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=crappy-android-tablets>, >>>>> Fragmandroid <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=fragmandroid>, google >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=google>, iOS knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-knockoffs>, iOS roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-roadkill>, iOS wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-wannabes>, iPad knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-knockoffs>, iPad roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-roadkill>, iPad wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-wannabes>, iPhone knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-knockoffs>, iPhone roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-roadkill>, iPhone wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-wannabes>, Lillipop >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=lillipop>, patent infringement >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=patent-infringement>, trade dress >>>>> infringement <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=trade-dress-infringement> | >>>>> Categories: News <http://macdailynews.com/?cat=103> | URL: >>>>> http://wp.me/p19WFc-BYs >>>>> >>>>> Comment >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/#respond> >>>>> See all comments >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/#comments> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe >>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=34f46d11466fcf7c982d9f6432b41391&email=dchittenden%40gmail.com&b=Cc%3Dm8sqvYBZe7y%5BdT8b4D.%7CtX_MnYYjlOXVDY1sPJuJ%3FCW%3DmCj> >>>>> to no longer receive posts from MacDailyNews. >>>>> Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions >>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=34f46d11466fcf7c982d9f6432b41391&email=dchittenden%40gmail.com>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your browser: >>>>> http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for flying with WordPress.com <http://wordpress.com> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>> list. 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