I remember Outspoken on early Macs while the rest of us were still on DOS and swooning over the dectalk external synth; sound didn't come naturally to computers at that time. I was using an early Hal on a Mimic and then an Apollo, there were several others; can't remember the one that Dectalk always got paird up with. Jaws was a late comer to all this. Vocaleyes, precursor to WindowEyes springs to mind.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chalt...@gmail.com> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [New post] ‘Shockingly bad’ Google Android 5.0 Lollipop update bricks phones, tablets; kills apps I've heard rumors of this Apple screen reader before, but I've never been able to find any information on it on the web. I see references to Textalker from Street Electronics, and I know Raised Dot Computing had some self voicing applications for the Apple II, but I don't recall this screen reader from Apple myself, and like I said, I haven't been able to find any information on it on the web. On 11/20/2014 11:36 PM, David Chittenden wrote: > Your information about Apple's past regarding accessibility is not > precisely accurate. > > Apple placed a rudimentary screen reader in the Apple II back in 1983. I > know because I worked with it for a brief period of time during my first > attempt at university. It did not give me the same access as the $10,000 > specialised computer system, and as I was a computer systems student at > the time, I usually had priority on the better machine. > > In 1989, I managed a community college AT lab. I also managed the faculty > port server database for IT. One day, my IT boss summoned me to his office > where he demonstrated his nice new Macintosh. He loaded the built-in > screen-enlargement on the Mac (which Apple never advertised about, and > showed me how much better it was compared with the TSI Vista enlargement > system I maintained on one of the AT machines. At that time, I could see > letters if they were two to four on the monitor at a time. The mac > enlargement was crisp and clear, even at my magnification requirements. > The Vista board system caused pixelation around the edges of the letters. > Also, the Mac system used and followed the mouse precisely. We did not > have a mouse on the Vista machine. > > In the mid 90's, I learned from a cousin who is a Mac software engineer > who consulted for APPLE, that he was payed by Apple to interface with > Berkeley Systems so they would have the best possible interface with > OutSpoken for Mac. > > After Berkeley Systems went out of business, and HumanWare (or was it > Pulse Data) decided not to continue OutSpoken for Mac (after purchasing > the rights of the software), Apple contacted Freedom Scientific attempting > to get them to develop the screen reader for OSX. Freedom Scientific > refused, so Apple decided to take Mac screen reader development in-house > in 2002 / 2003. They released VoiceOver for OSX Tiger in 2005, which > speaks to a two year screen-reader development cycle. > > Contrary to the common belief, the above history does not demonstrate a > company which was uninterested in accessibility. They often initially got > it wrong, but they were never not interested. > > Note: everything except my cousin's information can be located on the net. > I will not divulge my cousin's information as what was said I consider to > be in confidence (especially considering Apple's pathological need for > privacy and confidentiality. > > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 21 Nov 2014, at 16:26, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sadly, I knew people who had the old Apple computers back in the 80s, and >> also who had max running outspoken. It is a fact, so far as I understand >> it from people who know more than I do., That Apple did exactly nothing >> with respect to accessibility until after the feds past 508 and they woke >> up and smell the coffee and realized that they were going to lose out if >> they didn't develop something. Then, they did voiceover. For the Mac, and >> then the iPhone, and they have done an excellent job by and large, >> although with the Mac, there are still some problems. That isn't to say >> that Microsoft or anyone else did any better. I just want to make the >> point that Steve Jobs was not an angel. And for many years, Apple really >> did less than Microsoft with respect to helping the third-party >> developers who are trying to make the system accessible. >> Mary >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 1:29 PM, Mary Anne Lynskey <marlyn...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have never found that the Droid system has been easy to use from >>> playing with my brother's phone. In fact, I have found it to be clumbsy >>> and awkward to navigate. Having stated that, I've not really learned how >>> to use it either and am just starting to do some homework on it now. I >>> am hoping that things improve before the time comes for me to decide. I >>> think the problem here is that Apple had raised the bar so high that we >>> are all upset and disappointed when things fall apart, as we should be. >>> And yes, I still think Steve J is a huge loss and even if the system was >>> not good to start with, it became far superior to anything out there on >>> his watch. In fact, my very first computer that I could use with good >>> functionality way back in the early 80's was the Apple IIe or IIc, can't >>> remember which. That was before MS really had much out there that was >>> accessible and if IBM did, it was very costly. So I think the apple >>> founders truly did have accessibility as a priority from the start. I do think that one person can make a big difference in what a company does, its policies and its priorities, especially if the person happen to be in Mr. J's position. That's my take on the Steve J issue, a huge loss and too young. This new person in charge needs to step up to the plate, fix what is broken and quit tinkering with that stupid watch. >>> >>> Mary Anne >>> >>> >>>> On 11/19/2014 9:49 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>> Well, Google obviously never releases extremely bug-ridden software >>>> like Apple does, right? (see the below message). >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> *From:* MacDailyNews <comment-re...@wordpress.com >>>>> <mailto:comment-re...@wordpress.com>> >>>>> *Date:* 20 November 2014 14:59:33 NZDT >>>>> *To:* dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>> *Subject:* *[New post] ‘Shockingly bad’ Google Android 5.0 Lollipop >>>>> update bricks phones, tablets; kills apps* >>>>> *Reply-To:* "MacDailyNews" >>>>> <comment+e60benyponb65mhj-j_lcs...@comment.wordpress.com >>>>> <mailto:comment+e60benyponb65mhj-j_lcs...@comment.wordpress.com>> >>>>> >>>>> WordPress.com >>>>> MacDailyNews posted: "[cfsp key="adsense_336x280"]"Early adopters of >>>>> Google's latest Android operating system are warning others of >>>>> problems with the software," Leo Kelion reports for The Beeb. "Issues >>>>> include the update causing Nexus 7 tablets to run slowly and >>>>> repeatedly cra" >>>>> Respond to this post by replying above this line >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> New post on *MacDailyNews* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ‘Shockingly bad’ Google Android 5.0 Lollipop update bricks >>>>> phones, tablets; kills apps >>>>> >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/> >>>>> >>>>> by MacDailyNews <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/> >>>>> >>>>> [cfsp key="adsense_336x280"]"Early adopters of Google's latest Android >>>>> operating system are warning others of problems with the software," >>>>> Leo Kelion reports for The Beeb. "Issues include the update causing >>>>> Nexus 7 tablets to run slowly and repeatedly crash, with several users >>>>> complaining they had become 'unusable.'" >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews Take: *Even more so than usual, apparently. >>>>> >>>>> "The code also appears to remove apps built with Adobe Air and then >>>>> prevent them from being reinstalled," Kelion reports. "Dozens of >>>>> messages posted to Google's own forums suggest that owners of the 2012 >>>>> version of the Nexus 7, in particular, are experiencing headaches. >>>>> 'Some apps won't work and some crash. I wish I didn't install the >>>>> update,' wrote Kristen Sawyer. Another user, nicknamed StretchToo >>>>> said: 'Chrome is dead, unusable, Firefox just about works, the >>>>> keyboard takes over a minute to load, nearly works if you hunt and >>>>> peck but dies if you try to swipe.'" >>>>> >>>>> "'Updated and the Nexus is [so] shockingly bad it is basically >>>>> unusable, lags just rotating the screen, every task takes 10 seconds >>>>> to perform if it does it [at all],' wrote Gary Looker," Kelion >>>>> reports. "Several Android Lollipop users have also highlighted >>>>> compatibility problems with Air-based apps... Reports elsewhere >>>>> suggest some users are experiencing problems with text messages, the >>>>> way contacts are managed, and wi-fi connectivity." >>>>> >>>>> *Read more in the full article here >>>>> <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30116319>.* >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews Take: *It's well past time to stop settling for >>>>> inferior wares and get the iPhone 6, 6 Plus, iPad Air 2, and/or >>>>> iPad mini that you really wanted but stupidly tried to >>>>> approximate, fragmandroid settlers. >>>>> >>>>> Pry open thou eyes, casteth aside thine darkness and >>>>> cometh-hither into the light! >>>>> >>>>> [Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader "buddabob" for the heads up.] >>>>> >>>>> *Related articles:* >>>>> Apple posts new how-to guide: Switching from Android phone to iPhone >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/apple-posts-new-how-to-guide-switching-from-android-phone-to-iphone/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> Reviewers fall all over themselves to praise Apple’s 64-bit iPhone >>>>> 6/Plus >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/reviewers-fall-all-over-themselves-to-praise-apples-64-bit-iphone-6plus/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus tested at Disneyland: ‘So badass’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/iphone-6-iphone-6-plus-tested-at-disneyland-so-badass/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Re/code reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6 Plus: ‘A statement phone,’ not >>>>> a ‘plastic toy’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/recode-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-plus-a-statement-phone-not-a-plastic-toy/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Megapixels mean nothing: Apple iPhone 6 trounces Samsung Galaxy S5 in >>>>> camera shootout >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/megapixels-mean-nothing-apple-iphone-6-trounces-samsung-galaxy-s5-in-camera-shootout/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> The Telegraph reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6 Plus: ‘It’s peerless’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/the-telegraph-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-plus-its-peerless/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> TechCrunch reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best smartphone >>>>> available’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/techcrunch-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-available/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> USA Today’s Baig reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6/Plus: ‘Smartphone >>>>> stars’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/17/usa-todays-baig-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6plus-smartphone-stars/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 17, 2014 >>>>> Walt Mossberg reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best smartphone on >>>>> the market’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/walt-mossberg-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-on-the-market/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> The Wall Street Journal reviews Apple’s 64-bit iPhone 6: ‘The best >>>>> smartphone you can buy’ >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/the-wall-street-journal-reviews-apples-64-bit-iphone-6-the-best-smartphone-you-can-buy/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> Macworld reviews 64-bit iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus: Bigger is better >>>>> (in the right hands) >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/09/16/macworld-reviews-64-bit-iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-bigger-is-better-in-the-right-hands/> >>>>> >>>>> - September 16, 2014 >>>>> >>>>> *MacDailyNews <http://macdailynews.com/author/macdailynews/>* | >>>>> Wednesday, November 19, 2014 at 8:59 pm | Tags: android >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=android>, App Store knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-knockoffs>, App Store roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-roadkill>, App Store wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=app-store-wannabes>, Apple >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=apple>, crappy Android phones >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=crappy-android-phones>, crappy Android >>>>> tablets <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=crappy-android-tablets>, >>>>> Fragmandroid <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=fragmandroid>, google >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=google>, iOS knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-knockoffs>, iOS roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-roadkill>, iOS wannabes >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ios-wannabes>, iPad knockoffs >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-knockoffs>, iPad roadkill >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-roadkill>, iPad wannabes <http:/ /macdailynews.com/?tag=ipad-wannabes>, iPhone knockoffs <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-knockoffs>, iPhone roadkill <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-roadkill>, iPhone wannabes <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=iphone-wannabes>, Lillipop <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=lillipop>, patent infringement <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=patent-infringement>, trade dress infringement <http://macdailynews.com/?tag=trade-dress-infringement> | Categories: News <http://macdailynews.com/?cat=103> | URL: http://wp.me/p19WFc-BYs >>>>> >>>>> Comment >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/#respond> >>>>> >>>>> See all comments >>>>> <http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/#comments> >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe >>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=34f46d11466fcf7c982d9f6432b41391&email=dchittenden%40gmail.com&b=Cc%3Dm8sqvYBZe7y%5BdT8b4D.%7CtX_MnYYjlOXVDY1sPJuJ%3FCW%3DmCj> >>>>> >>>>> to no longer receive posts from MacDailyNews. >>>>> Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions >>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=34f46d11466fcf7c982d9f6432b41391&email=dchittenden%40gmail.com>. >>>>> >>>>> *Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your browser: >>>>> http://macdailynews.com/2014/11/19/shockingly-bad-google-android-5-0-lollipop-update-bricks-phones-tablets-kills-apps/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for flying with WordPress.com <http://wordpress.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>> list. 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