On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote: > > No ! You seem to be confusing chemistry with nuclear reactions. Heat is >> not being stored but altered reactants are. >> > > Incorrect. Any method of storing energy -- chemical, mechanical, > electrical or nuclear -- must result in a heat deficit. All energy converts > to heat. Whether the heat sources is chemical or nuclear, all of the energy > in the end converts to heat, and only heat leaves the calorimeter. > > Obviously, the heat itself is not stored. I did not say that, and I did > not mean it. > > When you load a hydride, chemical energy is stored -- not heat itself. > More energy goes in than comes out. There is an energy deficit, and when > the hydride is inside calorimeter, that shows up as a heat deficit. > > When you charge a battery, electricity is stored as a chemical change. > Tota energy leaving the cell is less than energy going in. Because heat is > the only form of energy a calorimeter can detect, and because all sources > and all forms of energy must eventually degrade into heat, the calorimeter > sees a deficit. Other instruments will show the stored energy in other > forms. An electric power meter attached to the battery will show the stored > energy as increased potential electricity (voltage or specific gravity), > but a calorimeter can only measure it as a heat deficit while the battery > is charged. > > Mechanically winding up a spring inside a calorimeter will show a complete > heat deficit. That is to say, you put work into the spring, but no heat is > produced. This was a classic 19th century experiment performed by J. P. > Joule. This would violate the First Law if the energy were not stored in > the spring, by changing the internal structure of the spring. > > Joule's apparatus used a spindle with paddles which was turned by a falling weight outside the calorimeter. The motion of the falling weight did not result in the generation of potential energy. It only resulted in the warming of the water inside calorimeter. However, if the falling of the weight were to wind up a spring in addition to turning of the paddle then the same energy input - in the form gravitational potential energy (i.e. the weight time the height through which the weight falls) would warm the water AND store energy in the spring. According to Joule the amount of heat generated is only a function of how far the weight falls. It is not a function of how quickly it falls, so even if the spring slows the descent of the weight the calorimeter will read the same rise in temperature with or without the spring attached. This thought experiment demonstrates how two systems can have the same energy input and generate the same temperatures but one can store energy and the other can't. Harry > https://books.google.com/books?id=oxQ2i23IiMsC&pg=PT67&; > lpg=PT67&dq=winding+up+a+spring+in+a+calorimeter& > source=bl&ots=LkyLjbUQbX&sig=sAFyzKgdgWBLUFo-jKXTQy_TQGs&hl=en&sa=X&ved= > 0ahUKEwjhg5uCy6rUAhVG4SYKHWysARMQ6AEIKjAC#v=onepage&q= > winding%20up%20a%20spring%20in%20a%20calorimeter&f=false > > What you are describing would be a violation of the First Law. You cannot > store energy into a system and not reduce the amount of energy that comes > out of the system. > > > >> The dense deuterium which is created and stored using some of the heat of >> the ongoing reaction can and does react after power is cut. >> > > If dense deuterium is created, and this stores energy, less energy > degrades into heat, and there is a heat deficit. This does not happen. > > - Jed > >
