In reply to  [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s message of Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:34:12 EST:
Hi Frank,
[snip]
>Bose Condensate? , AFAIK, they form just above absolute  zero. Why were you 
>expecting one to form? 
> 
>Good comment.  A Bose condensate of electrons  only forms at low 
>temperatures.  I was attempting to form a Bose condensate  of protons (also 
>known as an 
>inverse condensate).  The thermal velocity of  protons is much less that the 
>thermal velocity of electrons at room  temperature.  This lower velocity is a 
>result of the increased mass of the  protons.  The distribution of the kinetic 
>energy of particles with  differing masses is the same.  I even tried helium 
>in 
>a past experiments in  an attempt to obtain an even lower thermal velocity.  I 
>believe that  protons in a proton conductor may be forced to condense through 
>external  stimulation.  The required stimulation depends on the coherence  
>length.  The product of the length of coherence and frequency is 1.094  
>meghertz-meters.


Assuming your coherence length is at least proportional to the De Broglie
wavelength (L_DB) and 

L_DB = h/p and

p = sqrt(2*m*E) where E = kinetic energy, we get

L_DB = h/(sqrt(2*m*E)) .

Since, as you state above, the energy is "the same" irrespective of type of
particle, we see that L_DB is in fact shorter for heavy particles than it is for
light ones (the mass is in the denominator). IOW I would expect the coherence
length of electrons to be sqrt(1836) ~= 43 times greater than that of protons.

IOW I think your quest for heavier particles may be misguided.
 
>If your intent is to increase the strength of the  phonons, why not use sound 
>for
>the stimulation, i.e. attach an ultra-sound  generator to the wire, and 
>stimulate
>it at the desired frequency? It may be  easier to tailor the length of the 
>wire
>to the frequency of the generator  than the other way around. (start with wire
>that is a little too long, then  you can slowly reduce it to the correct size 
>-
>perhaps even using an  adjustable clamp to change the natural frequency - as 
>with
>a violin or  guitar).
> 
>Another good comment: 
> 
>I like this idea.  In general,  applying shock to a Bose condensate of 
>protons is what I want to do.   The required frequencies for the lengths of 
>wire I 
>am working with are in the 10  megahertz range.  I have no way to mechanically 
>stimulate a proton  conductor at 10 megahertz.  


Piezo-electric crystals have been used in the past, to achieve sonic frequencies
in a solid on the order of 10 GHz (in the most extreme case of which I am
aware), so I think 10 MHz should be well within the realm of possibility.


>I would like to do this.  It 
>would take  one tight guitar string.  

In my previous post I suggested that the natural resonant frequency was
significant, which isn't necessarily so. It would be difficult to achieve, since
this is determined by the speed of sound in the material in question, whereas
the frequency you are striving for is determined by your 1 MHz-m product, which
as I have pointed out before, is actually a velocity (about 1E6 m/s). The speed
of sound in most metals is on the order of 4000 m/s, so there is an implicit
mismatch here. If you really want to resonate the wire at a natural resonant
frequency of the wire, then perhaps you can find a metal-temperature combination
where 1E6 m/s is a whole multiple of the speed of sound in the metal. This may
be a matter of slowly heating the wire (passing a current through it?), until
the right sound velocity in the wire is reached. (Assuming that there is some
temperature dependence of sound velocity in a metal.)
[snip]
BTW, while researching this response, I came across a reference to the "Fermi
velocity of electrons" (see
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/FermiVelocity.html), which I note is
very close to your 1 MHz-m product.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

The shrub is a plant.

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