Stephen - There are a few other details in the "big picture" that are not common knowledge, but should be mentioned. This is not really a breakthrough in one sense, but that all depends on how "public" you think the demo is/was. After all, it did show up on the internet. Does that make you believe it was really an open demo?
Mills (BLP) has already demonstrated almost the same kind of device to his investors and customers only - except that it is five times more robust, if not more. He claims that radioactivity does not result. Mills uses sodium hydride as the catalyst. Otherwise it is almost identical, yet ironically he will never be able to enforce his IP against Rossi. The operative word here is nuclear. That situation with BLP is the main reason it is hard for me to get excited about Rossi's demo. I am told that at least four dozen high-level executives have witnessed the Mills demo and several have signed contracts. I have not personally seen it, but it would not surprise me if a few of them are tuned into vortex, having signed strong NDAs, and unable to comment. Essentially this "Italian Job" would be "too little, too late" comparatively, if Rossi had not tried to make it "appear to be a public event". In the end, however, it is almost as secretive as what BLP has already pulled off, but it is a lot less robust than the BLP 50 kilowatt demo. Mills, in contrast cannot afford to let the public see his so-called "solid fuel reactor" since the dirty little secret about the radioactivity cannot be hidden, and this essentially destroys his IP. I label that detail as an outright deception. As you can tell, I am not enamored with the BLP business strategy either. Going direct to grid may not be an ideal strategy from society's perspective, but it is the way Gordon Gekko would proceed, and Mills is on that course. It's too bad that all of this breaks down into being thoroughly tainted by greed/ego driven motivations, since it stifles the chance for others to add incrementally . but hey: that is the guts of our free enterprise system, and now we can see the inevitable result of science being ingested by the MBA/CPA, where the role of the general public is to sense only what comes out the other end. From: Stephen A. Lawrence Jones, I often disagree with you, but this time I have to say your suspicions ring a chord. Something doesn't smell right here. Please check me on this, because I'm not sure I've got it right. And feel free to yell at me; I realize I'm going kind of far on not much evidence. * The basic work for this process was done by other (clearly legitimate) researchers some years back, but the usual problems with reproducibility etc dogged them. * Rossi, apparently building on that earlier work, has found the Holy Grail: He can produce large quantities of high grade heat on demand with a reproducible process. Everybody in the field wants this. Heck, almost everybody on Earth who knows anything about energy wants this. * When answering questions about this, Rossi seems to downplay the truly earthshaking nature of this work, saying it's something that works, doesn't matter how, and he wants to sell heaters. (I think I got that right -- from a post of Jed's but I don't have it in front of me right now.) I have the impression that he never talks about how he's leapfrogged everybody and how fabulous this result is ... is that right? * I don't see any acknowledgment in Rossi's comments of the serious difficulties which may arise in attempting to go straight to a salable product. This all sounds so much like what we've seen of perpetual motion machine vendors ... they downplay the earth-shattering theoretical aspects and talk about how they're just going to sell devices. * Nobody knows the details of the process except Rossi. * Rossi is keeping the secret ingredient secret so nobody can steal his work. Failure to reveal all has interfered with getting a patent. It has also made it impossible for anyone to attempt a replication. If he says he's going to reveal it at the end of the patent process, that means another two years before he tells anyone what was in the box -- if I understood what I read on Vortex. And until someone has enough information to attempt a replication, there's no solid way to test his claims. * Rossi, unlike the earlier workers, is apparently not a trained physicist or electrochemist. In fact, from what I've read here, it's not clear what his degree is in, or if he's got one. By all means yell at me if I've got this wrong, but if I've got it right, it's an important point -- outsiders can make breakthroughs, and dishonest outsiders can make breakthroughs too, but darn, it's rare. * Rossi has a past which includes possible con-artist work. If this isn't a huge red flag I don't know the meaning of the word "red flag". It seems to me there's just one piece missing from the puzzle: Is there a financial incentive for this demo? In short, are there investors in the background? If there are, then there's a financial incentive for Rossi to produce a convincing demo, and in that case I'd say hold onto your wallet. Now, Jed has said some interesting things about this: * "They should not try to sell practical devices at this stage. Sooner or later they will run into huge problems..." If Rossi really has the Grail, then Jed's comment is presumably correct, and this isn't the best approach. But if Rossi is faking it, then a black-box demo is exactly what he needs to do in order to keep investment dollars coming in. * "... I did not get the sense he is trying to scam someone, or hide something ... " "I have talked to many researchers and inventors who seemed much less honest." Of course. If Rossi's not on the up-and-up, then one thing's sure: He's really good at fooling people. Good con artists may seem totally honest. Honest people are often not as careful to appear honest as dishonest ones! * "I do not follow the work of Mills closely, but I am not aware that he has demonstrated a heat-producing device as impressive as this, or on such a large scale. Needless to say, no other cold fusion researcher has come close." Yes, indeed, Rossi hit a home run first crack out of the box. It's as though Edison demonstrated a 1000 watt mercury vapor floodlight as his first lightbulb. Is it too good to be true? * "I cannot think of any way this result could be faked." Right -- Rossi's good. But there's a black box in the middle. As far as I know, nobody who watched the Statue of Liberty disappear a few years back caught on to how it was done. In summary, I really, really, really don't like "black box" demonstrations in an area where everybody is desperate for a solution. On 01/17/2011 09:55 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Here is the website of the company founded by Andrea Rossi and others a few years ago. This company funded and owns the technology in question. http://www.lti-global.com/index.php However, apparently there has been some kind of falling-out with Rossi, and as you can see there is no mention of any of this on the website. It seems he is being marginalized. The company has changed focus to so-called "clean-coal". Sad. They have no comment about Rossi, who was operating out of a different branch (New Hampshire). They have large DARPA grants, unrelated to the LENR cell, and do not want to compromise those. You may or may not agree, but it is clear to me that this drama in Bologna was hastily staged, not ready for prime-time, and will end up being a disaster for Rossi and LENR in general - when all of the details emerge. First off, he will sell not a single unit in the USA without an NRC license, which is complicated, costly and takes years. As for Europe, where the need for inexpensive energy is greater, who knows? The best thing that could happen, IMHO, is that the Italian military, their Pentagon equivalent, will take over the program and work something out with LTI as to the IP. Jones
