Analysis of the design using established physics predicts that it will not exhibit pertual motion when it is built. It also goes without saying that you can't expect to design a perpertuum mobile using established physics. If the built device did exhibit perpertual motion, then it would be by luck rather than by design. In order to build a perpetuum mobile by design new principles of physics are required.
Harry On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Giovanni Santostasi <gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: > The Hydro machine has masses moving in a closed path in a gravitational > field so the total energy balance is zero. > When you consider the motion of the gas in and out of the chambers, that > unavoidably will have some friction and losses, then the system is going to > have a negative energy balance. > > This is similar to the last type of "perpetual motion" machines discussed in > the link in my previous post, but unfortunately they don't work. Interesting > to think about them though, one can learn nice physics in doing that. > > Giovanni > > > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Peter Gluck <peter.gl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Steven, >> what's the difference between those 'viruses' and the MEMES postulated by >> Richard Dawkins- see "Memetics>"? >> Peter >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Giovanni Santostasi >> <gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Orion, >>> Hopefully my comment is not understood as trolling.... >>> but as polite criticism. >>> >>> It is nice to have imagination and to think about things that are >>> considered by main stream science as impossible. I wish more professional >>> scientists could do that (some do and they wait until they come close to >>> retirement or at least get tenure). >>> >>> What is also nice, though, is to try to see what could go wrong in a >>> particular imagined idea or scheme as a way of understanding better and >>> making more concrete what one imagines. >>> >>> It happened many times to me to think about ideas that I believed were >>> great to find out almost always that two things were true: >>> >>> 1) the idea had some fundamental problem with it and I could not see it >>> (at least at first) >>> >>> 2) the idea was actually good but somebody already thought about it >>> >>> It is simply difficult to come up with something completely amazing, >>> right and original at the same time. >>> But one can learn a lot from this thinking and it is a good way to learn >>> and think about science and nature that are amazing anyway. >>> >>> Well, about the buoyancy perpetual motion we have the case that it is >>> something unfortunately neither original (in the sense that somebody already >>> thought about it) or really working (even if due to relatively subtle >>> reasons). >>> Somewhere non conservative forces are going to make your device stop. >>> This why there is not a working model of such devices but often simulations >>> can be found on the net. >>> >>> Here one example of a pretty complete discussion about different kinds of >>> buoyancy perpetual machines and why they don't work: >>> >>> http://www.hp-gramatke.net/pmm_physics/english/page0550.htm >>> >>> >>> Giovanni >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson >>> <orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Speaking of Regularly Scheduled Programming, here's one from Ski-Fi >>>> channel! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To my surprise, the troll, Eff Wivakeef, before he was banned, posted >>>> something that I personally found fascinating and transformational. Well… >>>> let me try to explain what I mean by "transformational". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <* * * Warning! * * *> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This has to do with another one of those strange synchronistic woo-woo >>>> events that occasionally pass through my life. If you don't believe in >>>> synchronicity or the existence of strange Unidentified Flying Woo-Woos >>>> (UFW2s) you might as well skip the rest of this post. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> </* * * Warning! * * *> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm referring to the Troll's attempt to both taunt and ridicule the Vort >>>> Collective by posting a You-Tube link to a bogus free energy device >>>> allegedly based on the manipulation of gravity, gradient water pressure, >>>> and >>>> buoyancy. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> See: >>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89SiqG3pI0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We see an individual, James Kwok, owner of a company called Hidro, >>>> explaining how his technology works with the aid of a fish tank filled with >>>> water and a flexible tube attached at both ends with inflatable bags. One >>>> bag has a weight attached to it. Kwok proceeds to give a warm & fuzzy spiel >>>> with birds chirping away in the background on how gravity affects water >>>> pressure, and how this pressure buildup in-turn affects the buoyancy of the >>>> two inflatable bags depending on how deep these bags are positioned within >>>> a >>>> reservoir of water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok, so far, so good. I have a pretty decent understanding of the >>>> underlying physics involved pertaining to water pressure and the effects >>>> buoyancy. Kwok then proceeds to show how he found a way, through some >>>> clever >>>> engineering tricks, of manipulating the effects of buoyancy by filling >>>> ballast tanks with gas. This causes the ballast tanks to become lighter >>>> than >>>> the surrounding water where they will subsequently rise to the surface. >>>> Meanwhile other ballast tanks currently on the surface of the water will >>>> fill with water causing them to become heavier than the surrounding water >>>> and sink. The end-game to Kwok's fascinating demo is revealed in a simple >>>> animated computer graphic where he claims an endless free energy cycle can >>>> be harnessed by connecting these ballast tanks with the aid of what looks >>>> like a very long bicycle chain. The rotating chain, in turn powers an >>>> electric generator. Wallah! Free energy! Brought to you by gravity, water >>>> pressure, ballast tanks, and a bicycle chain! What could go wrong! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What astonished me was not whether Kwok's contraption would work. (Not >>>> very likely!) The mystery I was confronting was what kind of mechanisms >>>> might have been involved in bringing Kwok's wacky concept to my attention >>>> in >>>> the first place. How did this Troll's random post, a troll who didn't know >>>> me, a troll who was attempting to taunt members of the list group I >>>> participate in, end up posting something that intimately synchronized with >>>> something I had been privately mulling about in my head for the past week. >>>> During occasional idle moments, I had found myself trying to visualize how >>>> one might be able to set up some kind of a "free energy" cycle that could >>>> take advantage of gravity/pressure/buoyancy effects. Hey! I know it's a >>>> crazy idea! I can't help myself! Long ago I came out of the closet (at >>>> least >>>> to myself) and accepted the fact that I enjoy playing around with these >>>> wacky mental exercises. So far, I haven't gone blind from excessive >>>> Imagerybation. My Fool's Imagination seems harmless. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What this visual exercise brought home to me was a realization that what >>>> I thought I had I created out of my own mind probably didn't originate from >>>> me after all. It certainly wasn't a personal creation that had originated >>>> from the troll's mind as he went about attempting to torment us. Nor was it >>>> any more a form of inspiration created from the mind of James Kwok when >>>> years ago he stumbled across the same imaginary "figment" and subsequently >>>> started diddling with it using his own engineering predilections. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Before someone tactfully asks me whether I might have left my tinfoil >>>> hat at home I must state for the record that long ago I came around to a >>>> suspicion (a belief) that most of us are constantly being barraged by these >>>> kinds of external imaginative energy patterns. It's happening to us >>>> regardless of whether we are aware of how such influences might affect our >>>> thinking predilections. It is as if these energy patterns are the >>>> equivalent >>>> of psychic viruses that are constantly flowing through the either of what >>>> Carl Jung called the Collective Unconscious. Under the circumstances, I >>>> don't think tinfoil would have helped. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> But take heart. Long ago I suspect our species found practical ways in >>>> which to protect ourselves from an incessant onslaught of psychic viral >>>> attacks, "viruses" that might actually be a form of "Instinct" as exhibited >>>> by animals. Most of us automatically dismiss most of these "viruses" as >>>> nothing more than a random thought. This is probably a good thing because I >>>> would imagine that our wetware would get pretty cluttered if we didn't have >>>> some kind of an automated filtering system set in place. We have >>>> constructed >>>> our very own firewall. How we have configured our personal filters >>>> determines what our wetware will allow through into conscious awareness. A >>>> few, like Kwok get hooked on the "viral" imagery because of the way he had >>>> configured his personal firewall, but also because he was attracted to >>>> similar concepts in the first place! Guess I could say something similar >>>> must have happened to me as well... and apparently to the Troll too, in his >>>> own mean spirited way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Once we "capture" one of these viruses, once we become consciously >>>> aware, and then intrigued by the imagery associated with them, we begin >>>> adding our own unique energy signature to the overall patterns. Eventually, >>>> however, we begin tire of the imaginary. We let go of it, and when we do we >>>> cease feeding our own unique signature of energy into that portion of the >>>> Collective Unconscious. We give it back to the Great Gestalt. Eventually, >>>> others will stumble across the same gestalt. They too, will end up adding >>>> their own unique signature to the Great Collective. I suspect these energy >>>> gestalts residing in Collective Unconscious are like constantly evolving >>>> creatures. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe science has recently hypothesized the possibility that certain >>>> viruses (of the biological kind) might not necessarily be detrimental. Some >>>> may actually turn out to be beneficial. There certainly has been talk about >>>> engineering artificial viruses that would perform specific biological tasks >>>> such as an aid to seeking out and destroying cancer. "Viruses" from the >>>> Collective Unconscious strike me as behaving in a similar manner. They are >>>> nothing more than psychic tools. Some tools are bound to be better >>>> configured than others. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Some may be intrigued by the idea of a Collective Unconscious behaving >>>> like a vast repository where inspiration occasionally springs into our >>>> conscious awareness. I'm obviously not the first person to have speculated >>>> on such ideas. No doubt, there are many who have chosen to run about as >>>> naked as they can get... without any protective tinfoil shielding the >>>> private parts of their wetware. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Others, on the other hand, may find the idea of a Collective >>>> Unconscious, meddling about with their personal imagination, disquieting. >>>> It >>>> messes around too much with a sacred sense of our identity - our soul, if >>>> you will. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In the end, it doesn't really matter whether one believes in all this >>>> psychic woo-woo stuff, or not. What matters is whether we are willing to >>>> allow ourselves to occasionally become passive, to float along the gentle >>>> currents of the present moment for just a tiny spell. Give ourselves an >>>> opportunity to RECEIVE ideas in whatever form or shape they decide to >>>> reveal >>>> themselves to us as. Of course, what we end up DOING with what pops into >>>> our >>>> head remains a personal predilection of our own doing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Happy garbage collection! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> …and now, back to regularly scheduled programming! ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steven Vincent Johnson >>>> >>>> www.OrionWorks.com >>>> >>>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Peter Gluck >> Cluj, Romania >> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >> >
