The travesty of the existing grid is that only 25-45% of the fossil energy
produced in heat and elec. at the utility company ever makes it to the end
user. The rest goes out the stack/cooling tower/river or ocean water as
Polution to the environment
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:
> I agree.
>
> the grid will not die, but will change from a delivery grid to an exchange
> grid.
>
> for me it is like internet.
> internet did nt kill the mainframe, but replaced it by servers that behave
> like
> big or small mainframes, providing different services, organized according
> to the needs, but
> also to the orgianization of the producer of content...
>
> of course ther is still home production, but less than at the begining,
> and alos there is an organized exchange platform, like CHP can be.
>
> mainframe are no more the only allowed technology, but big internet
> servers exists
>
> 2012/2/20 Robert Lynn <robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com');>>
>
>> The key issue is that household electricity demand averages about
>> 0.3-1.5kW, but can spike up to 10kW with aircon, ovens, hairdryers, clothes
>> dryers, toasters, kettles, lawnmowers, powertools etc. It is very hard to
>> make a system that can cover such a range efficiently or cheaply.
>>
>> Currently even the best batteries are very expensive ($0.03/kWh), but
>> grid supplies are typically $0.07-0.01/kWh (on top of the cost of
>> electricity at a large powerplant).
>>
>> A neighbourhood micro-grid is a good compromise - it evens out the loads
>> and can handle the spikes in demand from individual houses with no trouble
>> so you don't need to have a home generator capable of high peak power, or
>> any energy storage, but you don't have to pay for the maintenance of large
>> transformers, substations and transmission lines. And if your generator
>> needs maintenance you will still have power. A neighbourhood microgrid
>> will be low voltage, transformerless and will probably add <$0.02/kWh to
>> the cost of electricity. It might involve small generators in each house
>> (heat and power) with electricity shared between all houses to cover power
>> spikes, or it might be a centralized generator of 50-1000kW.
>>
>> That said all sizes of generators will be used from 100's of MW for
>> industrial uses to 10's of kW for factories to 1-5kW with energy storage
>> for stand alone and rural and 100's of W for communication towers or
>> lighting.
>>
>>
>> On 20 February 2012 22:13, Chemical Engineer
>> <cheme...@gmail.com<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent
>>> power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for
>>> local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I
>>> hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs,
>>> expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets
>>> it first...)
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical
>>>>> electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric
>>>>> power generators.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations,
>>>> the people who repair the wires after storms and so on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square
>>>>> footage to install your own power system . . .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating
>>>> and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and
>>>> replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your
>>>> supercritical turbine cannot do all that.
>>>>
>>>> I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and
>>>> refrigerator. It might be more "efficient" to use district heating and pump
>>>> steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U.
>>>> But it is not worth the trouble.
>>>>
>>>> Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has
>>>> his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis
>>>> make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In
>>>> cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have
>>>> individual ones because it is so convenient.
>>>>
>>>> It will not be more "convenient" to have one or two generators at home
>>>> (one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it
>>>> will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency.
>>>>
>>>> Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into
>>>> everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will
>>>> be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer.
>>>>
>>>> Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity.
>>>>
>>>> - Jed
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
