Abd, time is supposed to be dilated for the probe ship from our perspective as it approaches the black hole event boundary. I think of it in the following way: On the probe ship one could place any form of clock that he chooses to keep track of local time. Let'c choose a laser beam for his clock where he sample the emission frequency and divides it down to what is needed. Of course we would be able to compare the final counted down pulse rate to his heart rate for example.
I believe that the amount of time dilation is exactly the fractional change in the laser fundamental frequency. The heart of the spaceman would appear to beat at the exact same ratio. His every move would be slowed down to us until he freezes when the emission frequency of the laser becomes zero due to red shift as a limit. It will take an infinite amount of time from our view point for this to occur. Dave -----Original Message----- From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 26, 2012 7:18 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]:Question About Event Horizon Well, this was a type of trick question. I agree that from the perspective of an observer far away out of the influence of the imaginary black hole boundary the probe ship would never appear to breech the boundary. We would see any light emitted from this ship very red shifted as the ship proceeded forward from our perspective. Eventually, as after an infinite amount of time the ship would become invisible entirely since no energy is left within photons that arrive at our location. Now, here is my thought experiment. Take another probe ship and let it follow the first one toward the boundary. It is closer to the first ship than us such that it perceives the boundary as nearer to the black hole center than us. It therefore remains in contact with the first probe and can receive transmissions from it after we can no longer receive significant energy. We readily pick up signals from the second ship since it is a safe distance from the boundary that we perceive. We obtain status from the first probe via the second. I wonder if this is a hypothetical technique that would allow information to be obtained from objects such as our first probe ship as they arbitrarily approach a black hole? Could a chain of relay stations defeat the lost information problem? If this is possible then a lot of interesting questions arise. Perhaps information is not lost as it enters a black hole after all. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>; vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 26, 2012 6:53 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]:Question About Event Horizon At 06:16 PM 12/26/2012, David Roberson wrote: >I am hoping to establish that there exists a boundary from which an >object becomes invisible to us once it is crossed. There must. An "event horizon" is a "boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer." (WP). The article notes that, from a perspective of an observer who is "behind" the object (i.e., the object is along a line between the observer and the black hole center), the object never appears to reach the event horizon, the image being increasingly red-shifted as the object approaches the horizon. That puzzled me. It didn't seem to be correct. But I was misreading it. Light would be red-shifted as the object emitting it approaches the event horizon, yes. The event horizon is the bundary where escape velocity reaches the speed of light. Light doesn't slow down, though, it shifts frequency or wavelength, and the wavelength as the object approaches the event horizon would approach infinity. Aother way of saying that would be that the photon energy approaches zero. Old Black Hole Exploring Spaceships Never Die, They Just Fade Away. But the WP article indicates that the object would never "appear to reach the event horizon," which could be read to imply that it slows down. No, it would not slow down, it would be, unless under some other accelerating force, accelerating toward the black hole, and that could be seen. As it approachs the Event Horizon, the light, or any other signal, would be red-shifted until no energy reaches the observer as it reaches the Event Horizon. The signals do still travel at the speed of light. David, you didn't *exactly* state it correctly. The object becomes less and less visible as it approaches the Event Horizon, not "once it is crossed."
