A cubic centimeter would have 512 kj/m^3 /1000000 m^3 = .516 joules. This equates to .516 newton-meters for a magnet 1 cm cube. It appears that the force would be rather intense if most of this energy was concentrated within the closest centimeter from the magnet.
Obviously Yildiz does not have anywhere near a cubic meter of magnet so the question becomes where does the energy come from to power the fan for that length of time? Has anyone actually measured the power being delivered by the fan? I understand your joke James, but this is a serious question. Before I or anyone else should be willing to accept that this system actually works as advertised every possible trick needs to be eliminated. You have done a service in proving that there is not sufficient magnetic energy storage to keep a fan of more than a very few watts running. Now we must prove that the actual fan takes more watts than we can deliver and that has not been done. Is there video evidence from the show that proves that the fan was actually driven for the 5.5 hours or is that just what was suggested? This is beginning to remind me of other systems where enough unknowns are thrown into the fray to hide the real facts. Why only a short operation period? That should raise red flags for everyone. A true free energy device would not have such a limitation. I remain skeptical of this type of device until more clear evidence is submitted. I believe it was Jed that said that he has attempted to buy this sort of system before only to be turned down. Show me the solid evidence before I am willing to give up on the CoE. Dave -----Original Message----- From: James Bowery <jabow...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2013 6:24 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Yildiz motor in Geneva -- ran 5.5 hours then broke down If you trust wikipedia on stuff like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet#Description Therefore, as the maximum energy density is proportional to Js2, this magnetic phase has the potential for storing large amounts of magnetic energy (BHmax ~ 512 kJ/m3 or 64 MG·Oe), considerably more than samarium cobalt (SmCo) magnets, which were the first type of rare earth magnet to be commercialized. In practice, the magnetic properties of neodymium magnets depend on the alloy composition, microstructure, and manufacturing technique employed. So if I may be indulged for a moment... let's assume Yildiz has come up with a way of embedding so much magnet energy that it is the equivalent of a cubic meter of Neodymium magnets. That means he has a whopping 512kJ to run down during his 5 hours. This calculates out to: 512kJ;5hour?W (512 * [kilo*joule]) * (5 * hour)^-1 ? watt = 28.444444 W That's just about enough to run a little fan. Now the question is, where did he get such powerful magnets? (That's a joke, son... its a JOKE!) On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 5:14 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: I was thinking about the energy that can be extracted by allowing many pieces of steel to slowly come into contact with a magnet which most likely would not demagnetize the original magnet. I think it is actually a way to redirect the external field. I had an interesting thought. Take two identical bar magnets and place them far apart. Each one emits a static field from their dipole source that occupies the region surrounding the magnet. Theoretically a person could measure the field at every point in space around one of these magnets and I assume that it would be a vector with a certain amount of energy proportional to the magnitude squared. Sum up the energy from all these points and you obtain a number related to the total stored. With two identical magnets, you have twice as much energy stored when compared to one as long as they are far apart. Now, you can slowly move them together into a parallel position touching each other. If you end up with the poles in opposition, a force will pull them together and do work against the device that restricts the movement. If instead, you place them with like poles together, there will be a large repulsion force that requires energy to be applied to obtain the final position. The combined pair of magnets offers interesting insight into the problem. A test of the net final field can be performed as with a single magnet. The vector nature of a magnetic field suggests that superposition should apply as the pair is slowly brought into close contact and that the net field would exhibit two different values depending upon the poles matching or not. If the poles are arranged north against north pole, then the field would be two times as strong as a single magnet as long as each magnet does not strongly modify the others operation. On the other hand, when the north pole of one is against the south pole of the other, the net field would tend to balance out for our test device. It is assumed that the energy stored within a field at a point in space is proportional to the square of the field intensity. So, when the magnets are in parallel north to north, there should be approximately 4 times as much energy as that contained with just one magnet instead of two times as much which would be the original sum for a far removed pair. In the other case, the net would tend toward zero energy storage since the fields would generate a net vector sum of zero in the ideal case. So, if we attach one of my favorite scales to one of the magnets and fix the other in space and then record the force between the two as they are slowly moved together we should be able to obtain a number that represents the energy either absorbed or released by the pair as they are brought together. It appears that the same amount of energy would be measured in both cases which is equal to the total for two magnets far removed. I would assume that it would be much easier to allow the magnets to pull together in the configuration where the poles are opposite since they would self align in that case. It seems logical to assume that the energy measured by this hypothetical procedure would be approximately the same as that obtained by slowly adding steel around an initial magnet since the end result would be zero external field which is what you obtain with the opposing pole configuration where the vectors cancel out. I recall the behavior of two strong rare earth magnets being moved together and it is not pretty. I could not control the position of one relative to the other as they became closer together no matter how hard I tried. At the time I was not interested in the amount of energy required to achieve that goal, but regardless of that number, I could not force the desired behavior so it was substantial. And, it was suicide to get some of your skin between two poles that were attracted to each other. Has anyone else attempted to measure the energy stored by the above technique? Can it be simulated with a computer program that anyone has in their possession? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. <hoyt-stea...@cox.net> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Yildiz motor in Geneva -- ran 5.5 hours then broke down The magnetization energy of neo magnets is small, hardly worth considering as a power source. I think it's about the energy recovered from just one traverse of a magnetic material from infinity to contact. It's related to the area inside the hysteresis curve. I have the figures somewhere, but can't find them right now. Neo magnets don't demagnetize even in repulsion after many millions of cycles. You should look elsewhere for sources of energy. Since magnetic phenomena are highly non linear in both time and space ( which may result in emergent properties) , these kinds of problems are notoriously unfathomable ( incomputable except via numerical methods and most models don't even consider magnetic viscosity Sv, whereby the response of a ferromagnetic material to an applied field is delayed from nanoseconds to seconds depending on the material ( for neo, it's about 1 msec , which I personally measured )). Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 6:42 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Yildiz motor in Geneva -- ran 5.5 hours then broke down Eric, That is a good start at the procedure. Can you come up with some calculations to fill in the blanks? We need to have an idea of the total number of joules of energy contained within a powerful magnetic of known ...
