On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Joshua Cude <joshua.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Harry Veeder <hveeder...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Joshua Cude <joshua.c...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm not talking about initiating. I'm talking about sustaining. I have >>> no problem using electricity to initiate the ecat. But if it's a source of >>> energy, it should behave like one and be able to at least power itself. >>> >>> >>> A match is needed to ignite a firecracker, but once ignited, the >>> explosion sustains itself. >>> >>> >>> A match is needed to start a campfire, but not to sustain it. >>> >> >> In addition to the wood fuel, oxygen must be supplied. >> >> >> >>> A battery is used to start a car engine, but not to sustain it. >>> >>> >> In addition to the gasoline fuel, oxygen must be supplied. >> >> If the ecat must be self-sustaining to be considered a credible source >> of power, then a campfire or a car engine should not be accepted as >> credible sources of power because they don't make their own oxygen. >> >> > > I would consider the firewood + oxygen or the car engine + oxygen as the > "devices" that are self-sustaining. One can certainly enclose oxygen with > an engine or with chemical fuel to make a self-contained thing that > self-sustains, if you have trouble with the abstract notion of a "device" > that includes gases present in the atmosphere as part of its definition. > Oxygen is not an energy source, so it does not represent energy input. > We tend to identify gasoline, firewood and hydrogen as energy sources because we take oxygen for granted since it surrounds us. However, they are only fuels. The energy source is the combustion of oxygen and the fuel. The Saturn V rocket's energy source is liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. The astronauts did not get to the moon on hydrogen alone. http://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/getty/6/5/3224965.jpg > Including the ac mains as part of the ecat is different though because > that is an energy source by itself, and the goal of the ecat is to replace > the power source that provides the mains. > > > If the ecat is like a rocket then its power is derived from two inputs. The first input is a metal hydride and the second input is electricity. Perhaps in time the ecat can made self-powering as more is learned about it, but expecting that now is like expecting the first inventors of friction created fire to know the science of combustion. Harry
