Well, thank you Perez. What a good dog you are. I hope your Mum gave you a nice bone whilst she enjoyed her Bubbles!
I have added some thoughts comments below. on 1/1/12 8:48 AM, Ronda Brown at ro...@mac.com wrote: > Hi Neil, > > This is NOT Ronni replying, (as Ronni isn¹t allowed to or Daniel > Administrator¹ will unsubscribe her from the mailing list), I am Perez (a very > smart Toy Poodle who has been well trained by 'Mum Ronni' in IT & Mac > Support). > > Comments to your interesting concerns are added below. > > On 31/12/2011, at 8:09 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: > >> First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE >> COMPUTER (go & find the Champagne). >> >> However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the >> Bubbles confuse me further... >> >> OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): >> >> I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive <www.archive.org> and >> downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had >> been mis-scanned and was unreadable. >> >> THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned >> by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had >> one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a >> different page. >> >> Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 & the other 4.5) and >> contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered >> introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end >> pages and the back cover. >> >> On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the >> Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only >> includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. >> >> When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, >> the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the >> actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but >> the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have >> printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very >> good thing and makes navigation much easier. >> >> So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one >> book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from >> one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy >> enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem >> page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. >> >> At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the >> complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails >> numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save >> operation was quite slow and two things happened: >> >> 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were >> numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as >> before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) > > The Thumbnails are always numbered sequentially regardless of the document or > the viewer, preview, Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. Hmmm, whilst that has been my recollection before, the creators of these pdfs have managed to change this behaviour. I will include some links to screeenshots showing this, and to the original file, at the end of my reply. > > What is called the ToC (Table of Contents) or Bookmarks' in Adobe Acrobat or > Adobe Reader view reflects the proper page numbers. I do not have Acrobat and I had not tried Adobe reader. However, I have now viewed both the original and modified documents using Reader and find the same behaviour as in Preview. There does not appear to be a ToC but setting the navigation view to "Pages" shows the same thumbnails and numbering as Preview does. > > In Preview App you have to be in thumbnail view to create a multipage pdf > document so the thumbnail numbers end up being sequential starting at "1" or > the first page stays at the file name and then the numbering continues at 2 > etc. > Yes, I used thumbnail view to delete the faulty page and insert the correct page but (as per the screenshots listed below) the first 11 thumbnails were un-numbered and the 12th thumbnail was numbered 6 (to match the printed page) and the thumbnails were then numbered sequentially up to thumbnail no 118 which corresponded to printed page no 118 and pdf page 124. The remaining 6 thumbnails (pdf pages 125 to 130) were un-numbered. Removing the faulty page and inserting the good page from the other book did not alter this numbering until I saved the file - at which point the thumbnails were re-numbered to follow the more usual convention which you describe, > If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it > will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. Agreed > With Acrobat Reader the thumbnails are also just sequentially numbered except > here the thumbnails are actually defined as "Rages" - to get the proper > numbering of pages you need to look at the 'bookmark' view. I am a little confused here - in my Adobe reader (version 9.4.2) I can see no reference to "Bookmarks" or Bookmark view. However in "pages" view I see the same numbering as in the Preview thumbnail view, ie correct numbering in the original file and re-numbered after saving. > With Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader, the bookmark view is the default, so > things seem to be OK unless you switch views; with Preview, the thumbnail view > is what we end up with because it's the only way to assemble a pdf, so we end > up believing, falsely to some degree. that the numbers shown are page numbers. Except that, as I say, the original file shows the "correct" thumbnail numbers! > > All very interesting and the above information and more can be found at these > links: > > <http://www.ehmac.ca/archive/index.php/t-96524.html> > > <http://www.ehmac.ca/mac-ipod-help-troubleshooting/96524-assembling-different- > size-pdf-documents-into-one-pdf-file.html> Hmmm, these posters are agreeing with what you say Perez - thumbnails are always numbered sequentially... What can I say, maybe I have a magic computer or just downloaded some magic pdfs for Xmas ;o) Now, I know you wouldn't dream of doubting my sanity - but there is nothing like seeing for yourself so: <http://www.archive.org/details/parishregister00brad> is the Internet archive page for the book, and <http://www.archive.org/download/parishregister00brad/parishregister00brad.p df> is the link to the original file. When I downloaded it, page 96 was faulty. <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6660543/orig%20file%20thumbs.tiff> is a screenshot of this file opened in Preview, showing printed page 6 (pdf page 12) and correctly numbered thumbnails. <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6660543/orig%20file%20contact.tiff> is another screenshot of this file opened in Preview, in contact sheet view - which clearly shows the numbering for the first 18 pages of the pdf. I then saved the file in preview - which re-numbered the thumbnails and <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6660543/mod%20file%20thumbs.tiff> and <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6660543/mod%20file%20contact.tiff> Show the same screenshots for the modified file - showing this re-numbering. In case you are interested, <http://www.archive.org/details/parishregister00braduoft> is the Internet archive page for the second copy of the book, and <http://www.archive.org/download/parishregister00braduoft/parishregister00br aduoft.pdf> is the link to the pdf file. When I downloaded it, page 97 was faulty. Interestingly, I notice that the "faulty" page in both books display just fine if you use the "Read online" link from the book page - so the problem must be in the pdf creation rather than the original scanning (If you follow the "All files" link you can even download the original documents scans - all 70MB of them). At this point, this is more an item of interest/curiosity than a problem since, as I said in my reply to Carlo: > I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels "wrong" but I do > get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( > See, my Mum Ronni¹ has trained me well I can use her MacBook Pro (a track pad > is easier than a mouse) and search on Google. > Oh, Ronni did tell me that she has Acrobat Pro 8 and it does do 'Page > numbering of PDF' but does not think it will be able to do what you are > wishing, but will try with Acrobat when she returns from her break. That may be the case. When I look at the properties of the pdf it says: PDF Producer: Recoded by LuraDocument PDF v2.28 - so this might be the program that did the page number magic ;o) > > Cheers and Happy New Year from Perez Cheers and Happy New Year to you too, Perez - and pass on to your "Mum Ronni" Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com > >> 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! >> >> So, my question is; >> >> How do I change-out this one problem page in the pdf without Preview: >> 1. increasing the file size by a factor of 150 times >> 2. Renumbering the thumbnails to reflect the pdf page number. >> >> Or is this just beyond the ability of Preview? >> >> It's not a MAJOR problem - I can always just keep the original copies of >> each book - it just seems a bit DUMB ;o) >> >> Any ideas? >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Neil >> -- >> Neil R. Houghton >> Albany, Western Australia >> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 >> Email: n...@possumology.com -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
