Hi Ronni Thanks for following up and clarifying the issues. I thought you were proposing I leave the iMac in server mode as the permanent solution. . .
Your questions and my answers … Is this how you have Apple TV Setup? 1. Both the iMac and the Apple TV are connected by Ethernet cables to your Router ….Yes. 2. The Apple TV is connected to your TV via a HDMI cable ... How far is the TV from the Router? ...Yes. ATV is connected via a 15metre Cat 6 cable (it is 5 metres "air" distance). 3. Both are connected to the same Network and have the same subnet and in the same IP Range as the Router? …YES. Subnet 255.255.255.0; IP addresses 192.168.2.1 (router), 192.168.2.8 (mac) and 192.168.2.11 (atv). 4. Home Sharing is turned ON …Yes It is an intermittent problem. iMac was in sleep mode from around 5:30 this morning. Activated Apple TV around 11:40 and it worked beautifully. I do have AirParrot installed, but not used for many weeks. Probably a red herring, but AirParrot appears in the Console log during the regular 100 minute activity period. Most other log entries are quite beyond my comprehension. All I do is look for patterns. I saw a couple of complaints in the Apple Discussion forum after OSX 10.8. I assumed Apple would fix any issues with OSX 10.8.1 - or 10.8.2 , but never followed it further on the Discussion forum (nowhere near as helpful as WAMUG.) Never saw any comment on TUAW or Macworld so I assumed it was a problem with me and not Apple. Perhaps a fix with the new iTunes - or OSX 10.9? Cheers Alan On 23/09/2012, at 11:34 AM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: Hi Alan, On 23/09/2012, at 5:17 AM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Hi Ronni > > Your response is appreciated and I can make sense of most of it. > > I'm still uncertain about the following. > > 1. Leaving iMac powered on (as a server, with just the display turned off) > makes sense as one solution to giving Apple TV access at any time. > But why won't it wake the Mac from sleep on demand? The "Why" is what we are trying to ascertain :-) Is this how you have Apple TV Setup? 1. Both the iMac and the Apple TV are connected by Ethernet cables to your Router 2. The Apple TV is connected to your TV via a HDMI cable ... How far is the TV from the Router? 3. Both are connected to the same Network and have the same subnet and in the same IP Range as the Router? 4. Home Sharing is turned ON > Is the Apple TV (WiFi or Ethernet) a "Bonjour registered service" as defined > in HT3774? Yes, Apple TV works on both Ethernet and Wi-Fi. Airplay also works between all devices on the same network, wired or wireless. > Is an ATV just not capable of waking the Mac anyway? It should be able to wake the Mac. On searching the Internet this morning though I find that a huge amount of people are experiencing similar to you and all since upgrading to Mountain Lion. Most are of the opinion there is a 'bug' in "Wake-on-LAN' in Mountain Lion. Since the ML release, 'Wake for Network Access' doesn't seem to be working. I don't have an Apple TV to test this. Perhaps someone on WAMUG who is using Apple TV in Mountain Lion could let us know if this is the case... or not. > >> I thought Bonjour etc was supposed to allow network connection when system >> was "fully" asleep. > > Yes, it should, especially as you have the iMac wired 'Ethernet', not > wireless. WiFi 'wake for network access' only works with Apple's own WiFi > routers as mentioned above. > > 2. Can you clarify "sleep" for me? I thought I did in my previous reply :) /quote from previous reply: "When a Mac goes to sleep, almost every component inside the computer is turned off; what is not turned off is set in a 'low-power mode'. The contents of the RAM and Video RAM are saved, the network ports might still get a little power, and a few other subsystems stay on, but pretty much everything else is off." /End Quote from previous reply > I am not a "casual" Mac user, I am a very "serious" user. 'Casual' was probably not the word I should have used, I meant it in the instance of you using the iMac mainly for AppleTV or a Media Centre type setup. > But the Mac gets very light work and spends most of its time idle and, > perhaps, sleeping. My practice has been to just walk away from the Mac and > let it go to sleep automatically. That is good practice, nothing wrong with this. I use a MBP, so I just close the display top and the MBP goes to sleep. > I very rarely use Apple > Sleep to invoke immediate sleep. I assume that > "display sleep" and "computer sleep" in Energy preferences are just different > power levels of the "sleep" setting. "Display Sleep" just sleeps the Display; "Computer Sleep" includes "Display sleep". >From Apple Support <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2412> "What happens when the Mac goes to sleep (not just into idle mode or display sleep)? On all Macs. *The microprocessor goes into a low-power mode *Video output is turned off, and a connected display may turn off or enter its own idle state *Apple-supplied hard disks spin down; third-party hard disks may spin down On portable Macs: • The Ethernet port turns off, if applicable (see note below) • Expansion card slots turn off • The built-in modem, if present, turns off (see note below) • An AirPort card, if present, turns off (see note below) • The USB ports only responds to the power key on an external keyboard (see below) • The optical media drive, if present, spins down • Audio input and output turns off • Keyboard illumination, if a feature of your portable computer, turns off A computer uses considerably less power when in sleep mode than when awake. The computer will continue to power RAM in sleep mode, so that whatever was in RAM when the computer went to sleep will still be there when the computer wakes. This also means that computers with more RAM use slightly more power in sleep mode. Note: Portable computers have no network connectivity when in sleep mode, but can wake if the Energy Saver option "Wake for network access" is enabled. If you wish to use file sharing or don't want to interrupt your Internet connection, you should not manually put the computer to sleep, and you should drag the "Computer sleep" slider to Never." > I further assume with just the display turned off (ctrl-shift-eject) the Mac > is NOT in sleep mode. That's correct, only the Display is asleep, not the computer. > If I set the Energy preferences display sleep to "30 minutes" and computer > sleep to "never", is this essentially the same as "server mode" using > ctrl-shift-eject? The only difference is, ctrl-shift-eject immediately puts the display to sleep; selecting Display Sleep to "30 minutes" in Energy Preferences the Display will sleep after 30 minutes of no use. Cheers, Ronni > > Cheers > Alan > > > On 22/09/2012, at 8:03 PM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I need to stop work as I'm tired and must give my body some food, but I'll > try to reply as best I'm able to. I hope I make sense... > > On 22/09/2012, at 4:51 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: > >> Hi Ronni >> >> First my questions. >> >> 1. Are you suggesting I set Energy Saver for computer sleep to "never"? I >> am reluctant to do this - comments later. > > When you mentioned the problems you are having in your original post; that is > why I suggested setting just the 'Display to Sleep' instead of the 'Computer > to sleep'. > Then the iMac is essentially an "always on" - 'Server' at that point. Modern > iMacs are relatively low power draw devices with the display turned off if > you have power draw concerns. > > For the casual Mac user, it’s probably best to put a Mac to sleep when it’s > not in use though, it gives hard drives and fans a rest, and will generally > lead to a longer lifespan of the computer. > >> 2. I understood Mac users are advised to leave their computers permanently >> "on" rather than completely powering off every night. Is this no longer the >> rule? > > I only 'Sleep' my MBP, other than restarting after updates/upgrades etc and > only 'Shutdown' if leaving for more than a few days. > My MacMini that runs my EyeTV and acts as a Media Centre (of sorts) is always > ON. > > This is an article that I have always adhered to: > "SHOULD I SLEEP OR SHUT DOWN MY MAC?: > > This topic is oft debated in many Mac forums, and does not really have a > concrete answer; a lot depends on what you do with your Mac, and what Mac you > use. > Before deciding whether to shut down or sleep your Mac, you should know (A) > what happens in each process, and (B) the pros and cons to both practices. > > Sleeping: > > Many computer users (myself included) almost NEVER shut down their computers. > There are many positive benefits to this (especially if you're a Mac user). > When a Mac goes to sleep, almost every component inside the computer is > turned off; what is not turned off is set in a 'low-power mode'. The contents > of the RAM and Video RAM are saved, the network ports might still get a > little power, and a few other subsystems stay on, but pretty much everything > else is off. > > PC laptops are a little different - because MS can't get its act together, > PCs 'hibernate' - like a really deep sleep. The hard drive is accessed a lot > during the 'hibernate' and 'unhibernate' times, causing a lot of wear and > tear and much energy usage. This also takes a lot longer than the Mac way. I > don't like PCs much (can you tell?). > > On a laptop, this mode uses VERY little battery power - if you're going to > use your laptop again within a day or so without the power adaptor plugged > in, this could actually save battery power, as shutting down/starting up uses > a lot more energy (much more disk access, processor power, etc.). On a > desktop, this could save a little energy (thus a few $$$), especially if you > put it to sleep a few times a day when you know you won't be using it. > > The best advantage to sleeping is that the computer (a) goes to sleep almost > immediately, allowing quick transport of a laptop, and no vigilance after > clicking 'Shut Down...' on a desktop, and (b) wakes up almost immediately, > allowing you to get to work right away. > > Shutting Down: > > Shutting down a computer has a few benefits as well. One is that NO power is > being used at all - for laptops, it's best to shut it down if you're not > going to use it for a day or two, as it will save a little bit of energy and > heat from being wasted in your laptop. > On a desktop, you might wish to shut down so that you can transport it, or if > you won't use it for a long while. > > Also, shutting down completely wipes away the computer's RAM (random access > memory), which might have some corrupt/junk data left in it from various > things the computer does. It also lets the computer's components cool down. > I definitely recommend shutting down at least once a month or so. > > However, when you shut down and start up your computer, the hard drive and > other components get more wear and tear, and use more energy. > > The Verdict: > > I recommend all Mac users to sleep their computers unless they won't be used > for more than a day or two, and all Mac users should shut down their > computers at least once a month to clean out all the gibbledygook that > collects inside the components." > >> Second, my settings. >> >> System Preferences > Energy Saver has "wake for network access" checked. > > In addition, the Network that the host computer and the Apple TV (2nd or 3rd > generation) is connected to must support 'Wake on Demand' feature. > <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3774> > > This works by partnering with a service running on your AirPort > Base Station or Time Capsule called Bonjour Sleep Proxy. > >> Energy Saver times are set to 25 mins for both Computer and Display sleep. >> Also checked to put hard drive to sleep when possible. >> Password login in Security & Privacy is set to 1 hour after sleep. > Why Require password 1 hour after sleep or screen saver begins? > >> iTunes has "Home Sharing ON" (permanently). > Correct. > >> ATV can see iTunes libraries just by touching the space bar on keyboard and >> entering password in iMac. It is not necessary to close down iTunes and >> relaunch it (which I used to do). May not even need password entered, but >> I haven't tried that variable. >> I normally leave the iMac powered up, with say a weekly restart and monthly >> power shutdown when strange things are manifest. >> >> And third, more comments. >> >> I thought Bonjour etc was supposed to allow network connection when system >> was "fully" asleep. > > Yes, it should, especially as you have the iMac wired 'Ethernet', not > wireless. WiFi 'wake for network access' only works with Apple's own WiFi > routers as mentioned above. > >> In Console I get System Log messages right through the night at seemingly >> regular intervals. Probably making wrong assumptions here. >> >> I feel problems started with upgrade to Mountain Lion (from Snow Leopard). >> Lot of other strange things occur but should not be relevant to this Mac >> sleep - iTunes - ATV issue. > > If this is the case, you might need to re-install Mountain Lion. > > Cheers, > Ronni > >> >> Regards, Alan >> >> On 22/09/2012, at 3:57 PM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> When the iMac sleeps there is no network connectivity. You can put just the >> display to sleep (ctrl-shift-eject does this). >> This will turn off the display and conserve power whilst still keeping the >> iMac turned on and thus the network connection(s). >> >> Or, Perhaps try turning on 'Home Sharing' and see if that helps? >> >> Also what happens if you Quit iTunes and Re-launch iTunes? >> >> Cheers, >> Ronni >> >> On 22/09/2012, at 3:19 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >> >>> Help please with aN irritating, irregular, but non-fatal problem with Apple >>> TV (or iMac). >>> >>> With iMac in sleep mode and with password needed to start (say one hour >>> minimum unused), Apple TV 2 cannot activate iTunes. ATV can access YouTube >>> at this time. ATV message is to turn home sharing on. All that is needed >>> is to just physically wake the Mac and sign in. >>> >>> Not consistent! Sometime will work with ATV fired up first thing in >>> morning. >>> >>> IMac wifi is off. ATV connected to Belkin router via Ethernet. Wake for >>> network access is checked in system preferences. >>> >>> Running Mountain Lion and all software is up to date. >>> >>> Irritating because I have a deep TV chair and the Mac is rooms away! >>> >>> Alan Smith >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
