Hi Ronni Thanks for your time and effort in pursuing this.
"Wake on demand" is still a big issue on the open forums, but tone becomes acrimonious and unhelpful very quickly. I repeat my comment above, and thanks for your patience and help with WAMUG members, and with me in particular. I will need to spend some time digesting the comments you made, particularly relating to the computer operation and the interaction of the two energy saving options 'Computer Sleep' and 'Put hard disks to sleep when possible'. I may have jumped to conclusions about what "server mode" implies. Like at least one other WAMUG poster, I too am eagerly awaiting release of the new iMac with the new processor. It seems the wait is just getting longer. BTW, I never installed Lion - I went directly from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion. And now I'm stuck in "variable testing mode' and have no time to watch AppleTV! Cheers Alan On 11/10/2012, at 12:46 PM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: Hi Allan, I feel you need to pay a consultant to come out and see how you have everything set up and also to check your Operating System, as you have been having a lot of problems in Lion and now in Mountain Lion. Without seeing exactly how you have things setup & connected, and what is happening on your System; trying to support via email is extremely difficult. That said, I will add few comments: You are trying to setup Bonjour 'Sleep Proxy Service', also known as ‘Wake on Demand’. So you can wake your Mac remotely - Auto-Wake for Network Access. Before the Mac actually dozes off, it hands off its list of available network services - file sharing, screen sharing, iTunes, sharing, printer sharing and so on. Basically it "Keeps a sleeping Mac available on the Network". I sent a link in my first reply to this subject 'About Wake On Demand'. More Comments in Situ below: On 11/10/2012, at 2:27 AM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: > > 1. The "wake for network access" option in System Preferences works for me in > certain circumstances. It generates a Console log entry of "kernel: Wake > reason: GIGE (Network)". When this occurs Apple TV can access iTunes and > play back music (files located on internal hard drive) and movies (files on > external hard drive). But the iMac does not really wake up. The screen is > still black. That is correct. With 'Wake on Demand' enabled, your Mac will occasionally wake for a brief time, without lighting the screen, in order to maintain registrations with the Bonjour Sleep Proxy. > The external drive only becomes active (wakes?) when it needs to access a > movie - not for music. The basic indication of things not working properly > is when ATV gives its messages about Home Sharing. Then the Mac has to be > "woken" by the keyboard which also lights up the screen display. This > results in a Console entry of "kernel: wake reason: OHC2" with a narrowing > (in my case) to the bluetooth device. We now have several versions of what > is meant by the iMac being awake. What appears after "kernel: wake reason: OHC2" as you have noticed indicates what triggered the "Wake on Demand". OHC: stands for Open Host Controller, is usually USB or Firewire. If you see OHC1 or OHC2 it is almost certainly an external USB keyboard or mouse that has woken up the machine. If you don't want a bluetooth device waking your Mac, disable "Allow bluetooth to wake this computer". > 2. Similar ambiguity exists with what is meant (by me) and understood (by > you) when I talk about the iMac in Sleep mode. I talk about "deep sleep" or > "light sleep" to describe certain conditions, but these are not formal Apple > definitions. Sleep: The Mac's RAM is left powered on while it's sleeping. This allows the Mac to wake up very quickly, because there's no need to load anything from the hard drive. This is the default sleep mode for desktop Macs. Find Out Which Sleep Mode Your Mac is Using: You can find out which sleep mode your Mac is using by opening the Terminal application, located at /Applications/Utilities/. When the Terminal window opens, enter the following at the prompt: pmset -g | grep hibernatemode You should see one of the following responses: hibernatemode 0 hibernatemode 1 hibernatemode 3 Zero means normal sleep and is the default for desktops; 1 means hibernate mode and is the default for older portables; 3 means safe sleep and is the default for portables made after 2005. My MacBook Pro uses hibernatemode 3 which is default as I mentioned. <http://macs.about.com/od/usingyourmac/f/What-Really-Happens-When-You-Put-Your-Mac-To-Sleep.htm> > An external observer can see the display as on or off, may hear the hard > drive fan or spinning disk or may note other indicators such as router led > signals. I think the distinction is important in tracking the cause and cure > of why "Apple TV won't wake iMac". "Display Sleep" is different to "Computer Sleep". "Display Sleep" only sleeps the Display - "Computer Sleep" includes 'Display Sleep'. > 3. Ronni's early response was to bypass solving why "wake for network > access" was not working and just apply a workaround fix: set the "Computer > Sleep" System Preference to "Never", while retaining a short "Display Sleep" > setting. My understanding was that this would set the iMac hard drive to be > constantly on and spinning, server mode. I explained that this is not so; the hard drive will not constantly be spinning as the computer is virtually idle. "This will turn off the display and conserve power whilst still keeping the iMac turned on and thus the network connection(s). Modern iMacs are relatively low power draw devices with the display turned off if you have power draw concerns." > Now if this is so, with Computer Sleep set to Never, does the other option > "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" have any effect or meaning? Why I suggested you DON'T select "Put the Hard Disk to sleep when possible" and only have 'Display Sleep' is because your computer runs off the information in memory/RAM. If the Hard Disk goes to sleep to save power there might be a delay the next time a program tries to access the disk because it has to start up again. Meaning Apple TV or something on the Network trying to wake the iMac. > 4. Now the nitty gritty. The converse - Computer Sleep (and Display Sleep) > set to 20 minutes As I mentioned previously "Computer Sleep" includes "Display Sleep"! > and with "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" NOT selected - does seem to > keep the hard drive spinning until after 20 minutes of inactivity. That's correct. > This simple pairing of preferences seems to permit ATV to generate the > "kernel: Wake reason: GIGE (Network)" signal via the "wake for network > access" option (when computer is in "deep sleep" mode!). This is hardly an > intuitive connection, so is probably a more subtle workaround fix. Or, as I > suspect, a partial workaround fix. Isn't this what you want ... for Apple TV to wake the iMac? > > This email response composed when I could not sleep. Maybe I should have > watched an Apple TV movie instead. I wish you had ;-) Cheers, Ronni > On 10/10/2012, at 2:02 PM, Daniel Kerr <dan...@macwizardry.com.au> wrote: > > Hi Ronni > > Yes sorry, I was just tagging onto the "does no one else on WAMUG have this > issue" at the end of his last email. > It should probably have been no, but I don't do it that way wording lol. > And was dictating and driving so couldn't cut the relevant bit. Lol. > Why I tend to leave answering WAMUG emails until I'm home at night now lol - > too hard otherwise sometimes. Lol. > > :) > > Kind regards > Daniel > > Sent from my iPhone 4s > > --- > Daniel Kerr > MacWizardry > > Phone: 0414 795 960 > Email: <danielATmacwizardry.com.au> > Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> > > ** For Everything Apple ** > > On 10/10/2012, at 12:55 PM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: > >> Hi Daniel, >> >> I mentioned to Alan in my first response to his problem on 22 Sept. 2012, >> that he only put the display to sleep, not the computer, and it worked, but >> Alan does not wish to do this, he wants "Wake on LAN" to work. >> >> His reply to my suggestion and my reply back is below. >> >> /Start Quote: >> On 22/09/2012, at 4:51 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ronni >>> >>> First my questions. >>> >>> 1. Are you suggesting I set Energy Saver for computer sleep to "never"? I >>> am reluctant to do this - comments later. >> >> When you mentioned the problems you are having in your original post; that >> is why I suggested setting just the 'Display to Sleep' instead of the >> 'Computer to sleep'. >> Then the iMac is essentially an "always on" - 'Server' at that point. Modern >> iMacs are relatively low power draw devices with the display turned off if >> you have power draw concerns. >> >> For the casual Mac user, it’s probably best to put a Mac to sleep when it’s >> not in use though, it gives hard drives and fans a rest, and will generally >> lead to a longer lifespan of the computer. >> >>> 2. I understood Mac users are advised to leave their computers permanently >>> "on" rather than completely powering off every night. Is this no longer >>> the rule? >> >> I only 'Sleep' my MBP, other than restarting after updates/upgrades etc and >> only 'Shutdown' if leaving for more than a few days. >> My MacMini that runs my EyeTV and acts as a Media Centre (of sorts) is >> always ON. >> /End Quote: >> >> Cheers, >> Ronni >> >> On 10/10/2012, at 12:35 PM, Daniel Kerr <dan...@macwizardry.com.au> wrote: >> >>> Not me. I have iMac set to never go to sleep and Display set to come on >>> iMac after 15mins. That way screen is "saved" and always ready to access. >>> The iMac is the "entertainment hub" for the house. Soon to be a MacMini >>> with 4tb thunderbolt drive when I stop long enough to inbox it and set it >>> up (from 3-4 months ago when I bought it lol). >>> Haven't tried it with my MacPro though. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Daniel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4s >>> >>> --- >>> Daniel Kerr >>> MacWizardry >>> >>> Phone: 0414 795 960 >>> Email: <danielATmacwizardry.com.au> >>> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> >>> >>> ** For Everything Apple ** >>> >>> On 10/10/2012, at 12:19 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ronni >>>> >>>> An update on progress towards fixing problem of Apple TV not waking iMac. >>>> Results promising, but - - - >>>> >>>> 1. I applied your explanation about Spotlight and removed my weekly OS X >>>> backup Firewire drive from Spotlight (retained Time Machine). This >>>> reduced the number (and time taken) of network activities around >>>> 'mdworker'. Mac now appeared to enter sleep mode with little or no >>>> network activity (which previously appeared to be due to Spotlight >>>> activity). >>>> >>>> 2. With an SMC Reset and standard settings - no improvement: ATV not >>>> waking iMac on 1 out of 1 test with Mac in "deep sleep" and no network >>>> activity indicated. >>>> >>>> 3. Applied your suggestion: "Do you have "Put hard disks to sleep when >>>> possible' selected in System Preferences > Energy Saver? If so try >>>> disabling this setting and see if it makes any difference." It DID make >>>> a difference, but not a cure - ATV woke iMac on 5 out of 6 tests. May be >>>> the solution to waking the Mac from "deep sleep". >>>> >>>> 4. Part way through test (with 3/3 OK) I applied another suggestion: "I >>>> would suggest you 'Boot from Recovery Partition', then 'Repair Drive' and >>>> then 'Repair Permissions' and then Reboot as normal." Results were >>>> both OK (no Permissions to repair as this procedure was run a few days >>>> ago.) Then ran ATV tests with 2/2 successful wakes from Mac in "deep >>>> sleep". >>>> >>>> 5. Then set Energy Saver parameters to 15 minutes (instead of 25 mins) to >>>> try and get Mac to be in sleep mode while Spotlight mdworker etc was still >>>> active. >>>> With screen black but with router still indicating some network activity, >>>> ATV failed to Wake Mac. (Sigh.) Failure indicated on TV screen with >>>> usual message "iTunes libraries that have Home Sharing turned on using >>>> "[ID]" will appear in Computers." Failure indicated on iMac from Console >>>> log was absence of a "wake reason: GIGE" entry at expected time. ATV >>>> connected to iTunes as usual when the Mac was activated without further >>>> action on ATV by me. >>>> >>>> 6. Setting 'Energy Saver' prefs to disabling "put hard disks to sleep >>>> when possible" has shown up other peculiar Mac responses. >>>> (a) Safari now quits (Dock activity light off) from time to time. >>>> (b) Now get an occasional unexplained "wake reason: GIGE" in the very >>>> early morning. (May have always been attempted by the network but not >>>> previously "got through?" iTunes App update available advice perhaps?) >>>> (c) Two WD My Book Studio Firewire drives now appear to go to idle mode >>>> after 10 minutes; Two Seagate GoFlex Firewire drives remain active all all >>>> times and LEDs only go off when Mac is asleep. The external drives >>>> themselves are not spinning. The internal drive continues to spin, as >>>> expected, until the Mac is asleep. >>>> >>>> 7. I will now conduct more tests with a focus on times when the Mac is in >>>> "light sleep". >>>> >>>> Thanks for your guidance and suggestions. Does no-one else from WAMUG >>>> have this issue? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 09/10/2012, at 12:51 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Ronni >>>> >>>> Delay in responding due to Mail not accepting new messages while I spent >>>> an hour or so composing a reply to another email! Then the backlog >>>> arrived all at once. >>>> >>>> My conclusions yesterday about localising the problem with Apple TV not >>>> waking the iMac were not correct: more variables and tests just confirm >>>> that ATV does not wake the iMac intermittently. It will wake iMAC with a >>>> "wake for network access" cue sometimes. >>>> >>>> Late this morning I did an SMC reset to give me a clean base to start >>>> with. I will follow your suggestions after I have a few hours of testing >>>> with this clean base. >>>> >>>> Other responses with your comments below - >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 09/10/2012, at 9:29 AM, Ronni Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 08/10/2012, at 12:18 PM, Alan Smith <sma...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> You have never explained to me what you meant by this comment you made. >>>>>>> Came to unconfirmed conclusion that my basic model iMac (no graphics >>>>>>> card?) >>>> >>>> What do you mean "No Graphics card"? >>>> Your iMac should have a Graphics Card NVIDIA GeForce 9400M or ATI >>>> Radeon HD 4670 >>>> >>>> A. My error: the context was that my base option 21.5" iMac does not >>>> work as well with graphics as the top option 27" late 2009 iMac, even with >>>> RAM increased to 12GB. I have the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB of DDR3 >>>> SDRAM shared with main memory. Extending main memory didn't improve >>>> performance. >>>> >>>>> Oddity No 1: Console log messages show a lot of mdworker, lsboxd and >>>>> sandbox events every few minutes while Mac is sleeping OR awake (but >>>>> quiet). ("mdworker unable to talk to lsboxd" is typical.) Forums >>>>> suggest this may be normal for OS X 10.8 and is to do with Spotlight. >>>>> Doesn't sound quite right to me, but then … >>>> >>>> That is correct. mdworker is part of Spotlight, which is basically a >>>> search engine for your Mac (think Google but locally, for your own files). >>>> "mdworker is short for ‘metadata server worker’. mdworker is basically >>>> the core technology behind Mac OS X’s awesome search engine Spotlight, it >>>> spiders meta data from your Mac and its files and creates a readable index >>>> so that you can find things practically instantaneously via Spotlight >>>> (command-spacebar)." >>>> >>>> lsboxd is short for 'launch services sandbox daemon' >>>> >>>> A. Thanks for detailing this. Never noticed such activity with Snow >>>> Leopard, but it was morbid curiosity to follow up while trying to find >>>> Console log patterns affecting 'Wake on Demand'. Just guessing - would >>>> Spotlight have such a lot of activity because it is searching 4 >>>> permanently attached Firewire hard drives as well as the internal HD? >>>> >>>> I would suggest you 'Boot from Recovery Partition', then 'Repair Drive' >>>> and then 'Repair Permissions' and then Reboot as normal. >>>> >>>> A. I applied 'Repair Drive' and then 'Repair Permissions' after a >>>> Restart on Sunday, from the normal disk utility access. (No problems >>>> detected, but no improvement to Apple TV.) I will re-do this later >>>> using the Mountain Lion Recovery HD as per your steps below. >>>> >>>> To Boot into the Lion Recovery HD' >>>> 1. Hold down either the 'Option key' on your Mac while the Mac is starting >>>> up. >>>> 2. When you see the 'Startup Manager', let go the Option key and click the >>>> Up-Arrow button below the Recovery HD icon. >>>> 3 Open Disk Utility >>>> 4. 'Repair Disk' and then 'Repair Disk Permissions >>>> >>>>> Oddity No 2: With iMac sleeping, sometimes the Belkin LEDs are not >>>>> flashing - just the WiFi LED flicks about every 90 seconds. There are NO >>>>> "mdworker" log entries in Console during this state. I confirm that >>>>> Apple TV does not wake Mac in this state. >>>> >>>> Well, there is nothing happening on the Network, so the LED lights won't >>>> be flashing. The Wi-Fi LED will flash when a wireless device iPhone/iPad >>>> is on the Network. >>>> >>>> A. (1) Yes, it is the iPad that causes the 90 second heartbeat. BUT >>>> (2) - Apple TV did wake Mac this morning with no prior network activity, >>>> and displayed a clear Console log entry of "wake reason: GIGE (Network)" >>>> which I think is the desired action. >>>> >>>> Your Apple TV is not waking your iMac in 'Wake On Lan' .... Do you have >>>> "Put hard disks to sleep when possible' selected in System Preferences > >>>> Energy Saver? If so try disabling this setting and see if it makes any >>>> difference. >>>> >>>> A. Put hard disks to sleep is selected. I will unselect and test. >>>> >>>> Even try disabling 'Wake for network access'... as the iMac is not waking >>>> with this enabled. >>>> >>>> A. iMac DID wake for network access from Apple TV early this morning. >>>> But, yes, this is another variable. Note also that the iMac WiFi is >>>> turned "off" as the ATV is connected via Ethernet, and that forums have >>>> suggested leaving WiFi "on" is a possible cure. >>>> >>>> <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3774> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ronni >>>> >>>> 17" MacBook Pro 2.3GHz Quad-Core i7 “Thunderbolt" >>>> 2.3GHz / 8GB / 750GB @ 7200rpm HD >>>> >>>> OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion >>>> Windows 7 Ultimate (under sufferance) -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
