T3 is at a high level of abstraction: it is a configurable application; it as a way to rapidly prototype (right from the app itself), once you know web2py idioms. Since you can define web2py actions and modify data models directly in the T3 app, you will want some familiarity with web2py (and T2). An example of the kinds of abstractions that T3 provides (already solves for you): basic wiki, with commenting and attachments - application level stuff. T3 makes assumptions for you which you might like more control over... move down a level of abstraction for that control...
T2 is a set of components. They make certain web2py common behaviors easier. It gives you more control than T3, and is quicker to write in than web2py (since a lot of common patterns are already done). You can tailor a lot of T2 behaviors if you understand web2py, and what T2 is doing on top of that. Often, most / all of a behavior (controller) you want is already done in T2. You can add to it easily. The base functionality is already there. This is (intended to be) nice. T2 provides (for example) login() functionality, and defines a default user table for you. See T2 doc for more. MASSIMO: B.t.w. - are you going to add a doc directory to T3, with T2 and T3 documentation? (The current T2 pdf: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mdipierro/t2/main/download/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/t2.pdf-20080922043548-uj1qtzubnbxj3dm6-26/t2.pdf?file_id=docs-20080922043548-uj1qtzubnbxj3dm6-8) Basic web2py is easy. You want to get a simple web site and web application up. You want to learn how to make persistent data portable with it. After you've done a few things, you will find that T2 does enough for you that it is useful. You'll also know enough about web2py to understand what T2 is doing, and when and how to have more control when you want it (down at the web2py level). Once you're oriented to T2, doing development, prototyping with T3 will (also) be useful to you. Hope this is a helpful description, and removes some of the confusion. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 9:08 AM, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My advise is start with web2py. T3 includes T2 and supports all web2py > functions plus more. The extra functions for now are poorly documented > and this may cause frustration. Moreover web2py will stay backward > compatible, T2/T3 no since it is still alpha. Once you understand > web2py you will find T2/T3 useful for some specific cases. > > Massimo > > > On Dec 11, 9:01 am, mattynoce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > in reply to massimo's question about merging: > > > > as a noob, i find the web2py/t2/t3 stuff very confusing. i was > > convinced that web2py is the way i should go for my new development. > > then i read about t2 and liked that it could handle the higher-level > > things like login and upload. but i didn't (and don't) know how to > > implement it into my application because i'm really just learning how > > to get web2py running. but i don't want to make a mistake by not > > writing for t2 and then having to adjust my code later. > > > > now the idea of a t3 on top of a t2 that i don't understand is more > > confusing. my plan is to learn web2py and get a basic app running, and > > then move onto t2 once i understand the basis of web2py and can > > separate the ideas of the two. but it is frustrating to feel that > > there's a better way out there that i can't use yet. > > > > perhaps something to think about when making your decision about > > merging or how best to add is what people would need to learn from > > scratch in order to use the project. if t2 and/or t3 were part of > > web2py, i would find that preferable because i wouldn't have to feel > > like i was learning 3 separate frameworks under a similar umbrella. it > > feels more difficult if i have to worry about whether i'm merging the > > technologies (web2py, t2, t3) together properly -- i'd rather know > > that web2py (with t2 and t3 merged into it) contains login and upload > > functionalities if i want them. > > > > either that or market them as "plugins" of a sort -- you can choose to > > add the t2 plugin if you want certain abilities. i think this is only > > worthwhile if you would get some performance improvement by NOT using > > t2/t3. if there's no difference, i would prefer it be rolled all into > > web2py. > > > > clearly i am not deep enough into web2py/t2/t3 to know the > > technological problems involved in that. but as a new convert, i'm the > > type of person you need to market to in order to have web2py/t2/t3 > > catch on, and having it all be a single framework would help. > > > > great work on web2py -- hopefully you (and we, the community) can help > > it continue. > > > > matt > > > > On Dec 9, 7:20 pm, "Yarko Tymciurak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I don't know if my suggestion was a good idea or not, but your comments > > > appreciated. What I specifically suggested: > > > > > Currently, "welcome" app is used as template for new (tier-1) > applications. > > > > > I suggested that is t3 (which, as currently, includes t2 module) were > to be > > > treated as a "high" tier template of the same sort, and also (like > > > "welcome") included with web2py, then: > > > > > 1 - new app could be either high-tier (use t3 as template), or low-tier > (use > > > welcome as template). Not sure which would be the less confusing > "default" > > > for new-comers. > > > > > 2 - t2 would always "be there" in web2py, so any app could "straddle" > and > > > use as much control as they wanted. > > > > > 3 - this "solves" (in an in-elegant sort of way) the version problem > for > > > modules (your app always has a copy of it's own modules). > > > > > Thoughts (this far)? > > > > > Going further: > > > What I'd really like (instead) is a "modules" (directory?) at the (?) > > > applications level to hold modules, eg: > > > > > applications/t3 > > > > > would include something like > > > > > applications/modules/t2 > > > > > BUT - I'd like a way to also keep track of versions, and preserve (not > > > upgrade) modules that existing applications refer to (have a reference > > > count?), so that you would have something like: > > > > > applications/modules/t2/rev12345 > > > > > and a way for migrating modules - that is, only keeping around [1] > newest > > > version, and [2] legacy versions that apps still used (but provide a > way to > > > migrate). I can think of a couple of schemes for accomplishing this, > none > > > of them "great". > > > > > What would this (modules part) do? It would allow people to > distribute > > > modules, and people running websites (e.g. clients) a recoverable way > to > > > upgrade. It would also eliminate copies & copies of modules in every > > > application (e.g. like shared libraries). > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yarko > > > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:59 PM, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > I can't keep up either. There is much stuff that is undocumented. It > > > > is getting difficult to maintain T2 and T3 separately. Yarko > suggested > > > > merging. I think it may be a good idea. Perhaps we need a new name > > > > (suggestions?). > > > > Should T3 be included with the standard web2py distribution? Why not? > > > > there are two known bugs to fix: CSV-IO, type='time' on GAE. > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2:57 pm, pedro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Wow! > > > > > Like someone said before, it should be something you put in your > > > > > coffee. I feel tempted to say: "slow down with the creation of > awesome > > > > > development tools, I can't keep up". I mean... I've been working > here > > > > > and there (in my spare time) on a web2py project and then I see T2 > and > > > > > think if I should switch, now T3, and it looks like I will still > save > > > > > some work if i restart from zero using T3. > > > > > > > T3 is beautiful. It introduces a totally new concept of web > > > > > development. > > > > > Anyway, what I have to say is: Massimo, thank you for such great > > > > > pieces of software. > > > > > > > On 7 Dec, 21:45, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Posted yet another version. Fixed some minor issues and now when > you > > > > > > edit "configure/procedures" you can do: > > > > > > > > ## for example: > > > > > > def add(a,b): return a+b > > > > > > > > ## or define rss feeds > > > > > > def news(): > > > > > > return dict(title='news', > > > > > > link=settings.host_url, > > > > > > description='bla '*100, > > > > > > created_on=self.now, > > > > > > entries=[dict(title='news item', > > > > > > link=settings.host_url, > > > > > > description='bla '*100, > > > > > > created_on=self.now)]) > > > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/rss/news > > > > > > settings.rss_procedures.append('news') > > > > > > > > ## or expose funtions > > > > > > > > def date_future(days=0): > > > > > > import datetime > > > > > > return > str(datetime.date.today()+datetime.timedelta(int(days))) > > > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/run/date_future/1 > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/run/date_future?days=1 > > > > > > settings.exposed_procedures.append('date_future') > > > > > > ## as json at /app/default/json/date_date_future/1 > > > > > > ## as json at /app/default/json/date_future?days=1 > > > > > > settings.json_procedures.append('date_future') > > > > > > ## or as xmlrpc service at /app/default/xmlrpc/date_future > > > > > > settings.xmlrpc_procedures.append('date_future') > > > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > > > On Dec 7, 7:39 am, BearXu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, T3 is like Django's Admin, but the difference is T3 > combines two > > > > > > > interface(Front and Admin) into one.It's more easy to use. > > > > > > > > > 2008/12/7 Jonathan Benn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Massimo, > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 10:26 am, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > >http://web2py.appspot.com/t3 > > > > > > > > > > Wow, this is pretty cutting edge stuff. So if I understand > > > > correctly, > > > > > > > > T3 is a web2py application that lets you interactively > transform it > > > > > > > > into whatever application you want. This seems really handy > for > > > > quick- > > > > > > > > starting projects, and I'd see it as especially useful to > help > > > > > > > > beginners get started and for students. > > > > > > > > > > Nice job! > > > > > > > > > > --Jonathan > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. To post to this group, send email to web2py@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
