So it looks like all the 3 will be merged and T2 will be given less emphasis (if i red right in some other topic). That sounds Ok to me, it should at least prevent many from getting confused. I am still wondering about the documentation though. I am just a casual user and I will be honest in here, I would like if there was more extensive documentation on web2py/T3. Maybe a community effort could result in more docs, I don't know. A documentation wiki, or more people involved in the project - some of your [Massimo] students maybe. I am not really aware of how many people out there are able to help with docs since all this is relatively new.
/Pedro On 11 Dec, 16:36, "Yarko Tymciurak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > T3 is at a high level of abstraction: it is a configurable application; it > as a way to rapidly prototype (right from the app itself), once you know > web2py idioms. Since you can define web2py actions and modify data models > directly in the T3 app, you will want some familiarity with web2py (and T2). > An example of the kinds of abstractions that T3 provides (already solves > for you): basic wiki, with commenting and attachments - application level > stuff. > T3 makes assumptions for you which you might like more control over... move > down a level of abstraction for that control... > > T2 is a set of components. They make certain web2py common behaviors > easier. It gives you more control than T3, and is quicker to write in than > web2py (since a lot of common patterns are already done). You can tailor a > lot of T2 behaviors if you understand web2py, and what T2 is doing on top of > that. Often, most / all of a behavior (controller) you want is already done > in T2. You can add to it easily. The base functionality is already there. > This is (intended to be) nice. T2 provides (for example) login() > functionality, and defines a default user table for you. See T2 doc for > more. > > MASSIMO: B.t.w. - are you going to add a doc directory to T3, with T2 and > T3 documentation? (The current T2 pdf: > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mdipierro/t2/main/download/[EMAIL > PROTECTED]/t2.pdf-20080922043548-uj1qtzubnbxj3dm6-26/t2.pdf?file_id=docs-20080922043548-uj1qtzubnbxj3dm6-8) > > Basic web2py is easy. You want to get a simple web site and web application > up. You want to learn how to make persistent data portable with it. After > you've done a few things, you will find that T2 does enough for you that it > is useful. You'll also know enough about web2py to understand what T2 is > doing, and when and how to have more control when you want it (down at the > web2py level). Once you're oriented to T2, doing development, prototyping > with T3 will (also) be useful to you. > > Hope this is a helpful description, and removes some of the confusion. > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 9:08 AM, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > My advise is start with web2py. T3 includes T2 and supports all web2py > > functions plus more. The extra functions for now are poorly documented > > and this may cause frustration. Moreover web2py will stay backward > > compatible, T2/T3 no since it is still alpha. Once you understand > > web2py you will find T2/T3 useful for some specific cases. > > > Massimo > > > On Dec 11, 9:01 am, mattynoce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > in reply to massimo's question about merging: > > > > as a noob, i find the web2py/t2/t3 stuff very confusing. i was > > > convinced that web2py is the way i should go for my new development. > > > then i read about t2 and liked that it could handle the higher-level > > > things like login and upload. but i didn't (and don't) know how to > > > implement it into my application because i'm really just learning how > > > to get web2py running. but i don't want to make a mistake by not > > > writing for t2 and then having to adjust my code later. > > > > now the idea of a t3 on top of a t2 that i don't understand is more > > > confusing. my plan is to learn web2py and get a basic app running, and > > > then move onto t2 once i understand the basis of web2py and can > > > separate the ideas of the two. but it is frustrating to feel that > > > there's a better way out there that i can't use yet. > > > > perhaps something to think about when making your decision about > > > merging or how best to add is what people would need to learn from > > > scratch in order to use the project. if t2 and/or t3 were part of > > > web2py, i would find that preferable because i wouldn't have to feel > > > like i was learning 3 separate frameworks under a similar umbrella. it > > > feels more difficult if i have to worry about whether i'm merging the > > > technologies (web2py, t2, t3) together properly -- i'd rather know > > > that web2py (with t2 and t3 merged into it) contains login and upload > > > functionalities if i want them. > > > > either that or market them as "plugins" of a sort -- you can choose to > > > add the t2 plugin if you want certain abilities. i think this is only > > > worthwhile if you would get some performance improvement by NOT using > > > t2/t3. if there's no difference, i would prefer it be rolled all into > > > web2py. > > > > clearly i am not deep enough into web2py/t2/t3 to know the > > > technological problems involved in that. but as a new convert, i'm the > > > type of person you need to market to in order to have web2py/t2/t3 > > > catch on, and having it all be a single framework would help. > > > > great work on web2py -- hopefully you (and we, the community) can help > > > it continue. > > > > matt > > > > On Dec 9, 7:20 pm, "Yarko Tymciurak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I don't know if my suggestion was a good idea or not, but your comments > > > > appreciated. What I specifically suggested: > > > > > Currently, "welcome" app is used as template for new (tier-1) > > applications. > > > > > I suggested that is t3 (which, as currently, includes t2 module) were > > to be > > > > treated as a "high" tier template of the same sort, and also (like > > > > "welcome") included with web2py, then: > > > > > 1 - new app could be either high-tier (use t3 as template), or low-tier > > (use > > > > welcome as template). Not sure which would be the less confusing > > "default" > > > > for new-comers. > > > > > 2 - t2 would always "be there" in web2py, so any app could "straddle" > > and > > > > use as much control as they wanted. > > > > > 3 - this "solves" (in an in-elegant sort of way) the version problem > > for > > > > modules (your app always has a copy of it's own modules). > > > > > Thoughts (this far)? > > > > > Going further: > > > > What I'd really like (instead) is a "modules" (directory?) at the (?) > > > > applications level to hold modules, eg: > > > > > applications/t3 > > > > > would include something like > > > > > applications/modules/t2 > > > > > BUT - I'd like a way to also keep track of versions, and preserve (not > > > > upgrade) modules that existing applications refer to (have a reference > > > > count?), so that you would have something like: > > > > > applications/modules/t2/rev12345 > > > > > and a way for migrating modules - that is, only keeping around [1] > > newest > > > > version, and [2] legacy versions that apps still used (but provide a > > way to > > > > migrate). I can think of a couple of schemes for accomplishing this, > > none > > > > of them "great". > > > > > What would this (modules part) do? It would allow people to > > distribute > > > > modules, and people running websites (e.g. clients) a recoverable way > > to > > > > upgrade. It would also eliminate copies & copies of modules in every > > > > application (e.g. like shared libraries). > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yarko > > > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:59 PM, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > I can't keep up either. There is much stuff that is undocumented. It > > > > > is getting difficult to maintain T2 and T3 separately. Yarko > > suggested > > > > > merging. I think it may be a good idea. Perhaps we need a new name > > > > > (suggestions?). > > > > > Should T3 be included with the standard web2py distribution? Why not? > > > > > there are two known bugs to fix: CSV-IO, type='time' on GAE. > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2:57 pm, pedro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Wow! > > > > > > Like someone said before, it should be something you put in your > > > > > > coffee. I feel tempted to say: "slow down with the creation of > > awesome > > > > > > development tools, I can't keep up". I mean... I've been working > > here > > > > > > and there (in my spare time) on a web2py project and then I see T2 > > and > > > > > > think if I should switch, now T3, and it looks like I will still > > save > > > > > > some work if i restart from zero using T3. > > > > > > > T3 is beautiful. It introduces a totally new concept of web > > > > > > development. > > > > > > Anyway, what I have to say is: Massimo, thank you for such great > > > > > > pieces of software. > > > > > > > On 7 Dec, 21:45, mdipierro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Posted yet another version. Fixed some minor issues and now when > > you > > > > > > > edit "configure/procedures" you can do: > > > > > > > > ## for example: > > > > > > > def add(a,b): return a+b > > > > > > > > ## or define rss feeds > > > > > > > def news(): > > > > > > > return dict(title='news', > > > > > > > link=settings.host_url, > > > > > > > description='bla '*100, > > > > > > > created_on=self.now, > > > > > > > entries=[dict(title='news item', > > > > > > > link=settings.host_url, > > > > > > > description='bla '*100, > > > > > > > created_on=self.now)]) > > > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/rss/news > > > > > > > settings.rss_procedures.append('news') > > > > > > > > ## or expose funtions > > > > > > > > def date_future(days=0): > > > > > > > import datetime > > > > > > > return > > str(datetime.date.today()+datetime.timedelta(int(days))) > > > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/run/date_future/1 > > > > > > > ## make is accessible as /app/default/run/date_future?days=1 > > > > > > > settings.exposed_procedures.append('date_future') > > > > > > > ## as json at /app/default/json/date_date_future/1 > > > > > > > ## as json at /app/default/json/date_future?days=1 > > > > > > > settings.json_procedures.append('date_future') > > > > > > > ## or as xmlrpc service at /app/default/xmlrpc/date_future > > ... > > läs mer » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. 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