Yarko, we should not transform a strength into a weakness. As I stressed many times web2py is mostly used to develop intranet apps in corporate environments (small and medium size businesses).
There are people do not want to say what they are doing with web2py and do not want to advertise that they are using web2py because they are not developing open source projects, because their paid by an employer who does not want them to publicly say what they are doing, because they do not know if they will meet their deadline, and for many other reasons While the fact that we want to have more information is a problem for us, this is not a weakness of web2py. Those corporate users are exactly our target users and they are entitled to keep their privacy. I do not care if nobody says they are using web2py. I know we get more tha 1000 visitors/day and more than 100downloads/day. I see how everybody is eager to increase the users base. I made a plot of #users/time from the data in the google group. The data is nicely fit by an exponential. What is remarkable is that there are no bumps in the data. It is very smooth. This means web2py is not spreading because of major events (like my reddit posts) but it is spreading by word of mouth. So, we'll keep collecting information people want to send us and we encourage them to do so. But, most importantly, we should all do our best to talk about the tools we like to use and contribute develop. Massimo On Jul 6, 5:48 pm, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote: > > > I understand what you are trying to say but when you say "no one is > > using web2py" gives people the wrong impression and not the correct > > one. It is not fair to member of this community who use web2py. > > Massimo - "no one is using..." are your words, not mine - what I _did_ say > is there is a gross shortage > of sites you can point to that serve signicifant users (PyCon registration > being the one clear exception). > > This doesn't need to be fair or unfair - it just data - what is (I hesitate > to say "fact" as there may be unknown data). > > > > > You should also assume that there are lots of people on this list who > > are considering web2py but have not yet made their mind about it. > > There are people who consider using it for developing projects. > > Do you deny it would help them, if they are to present to their partners, > their clients, their boards, etc. > if we had more evidence collected and available for them (us) to use as > resources? > > Do you realy believe this is not useful? Data is not useful? Ach! > > Serving that community - even if it gets uncomfortable - if fair. > > > > > As you pointed out Pycon 2009 used web2py to register 800 users and > > handled thousands of monetary transactions. > > This is significant. Cooperated w/ django app for site info. > > > > >http://www.klasproducts.com/uses web2py to sell hundreds of products > > This is important, if small quantity. It is a nice site. > > > > >http://www.spinyc.com/uses web2py in their intranet > > This is significant, but anecdotal (nothing you can show someone for them to > experience; perhaps a mockup that is open would be possible?). > Runs with RorR as main site (and all we can see / point to). > > > > >http://www.whitepeaksoftware.com/ uses web2py for their web site > > For purposes of showing web2py look and feel, this is just a website front > done in web2py; > The storefront is something else; the blog is wordpress. There is nothing > of the "benefits" of web2py to show here I could see. > > That is not to criticize - no sense re-inventing wheels; use what is > available, and build what is new and interesting. > > But from the standpoint of being a showcase example for this community to > draw on - for people wanting to show sites > that take advantage of the benefits of web2py, I do not feel this belongs on > this list. > > We need to be more discerning. > > > > >http://diarywiz.com/is powered by web2py > > This is a real application example. I'm not sure how it is significant in > terms of what it does new (for example, like survey tool did), > and I'm not sure that I would show this as an example to clients, boards, > etc.... > > It seems like an appropriate example for prospective developers. > > > > > There are just some of those we know about and choose to advertise > > what they do. > > So that is 2 for "showcase" - one very low usage ("hundreds"), one seasonal > but successful (near 1000 users). > > > > > Of course more people will come out eventually. As I said most of the > > work is done on intranet apps. > > Let's hear talk about them. Even if someone can't name the company, or the > specifics it is useful to hear kinds of things. > > > > > There is no question that Django is more popular and Drupal is > > probably much more popular than web2py. They have been around longer, > > came first and had more time to build a community. Moreover Drupal is > > a designed to build CMS therefore apps made with Drupal are naturally > > publicly available. > > I am pointing out what will be helpful here, for web2py, for this community. > I am stating what I could use now, what I want > > Those other things, comparing, are just distractions (inasmuch as they serve > as guideposts, examples, lessons of aspects > we can benefit from). > > > > > I do not think discussion about how popular we are vs how popular they > > are is healthy. Moreover despite what some people think I do not care > > much about it. I would like the discussion to focus more on what we do > > better (feature wise), what they do better, what can we do to improve > > our features, what can we do to promote web2py features. > > I am puzzled why you keep using the term "popular" - you must have some > issue with this. > There is "fad"; there is popular because useful, reasons behind use (e.g. > excercise is popular - it helps you stay healthy! When the evidence smoking > was bad for health became available, smoking became much less "popular"). > > Discussing what we can do better feature wise - and this is my point - I'd > like to see balanced with > EVIDENCE / EXAMPLES of that "better" - "Here - look at this site, for > example; or look at this example site." > > People ask ME for that, and it's a fair request. > > > Some people are not interested in features as are only interested in > > learning the system that will give them the highest chance of getting > > hired. Some people are interested in features as a way to get the job > > done better and quicker. I am working for this second class of users. > > I am interested in building a community for these people. > > Your own words: "...get *the job done* better, quicker..." > > It's what I hear -> "You say this is better? Show me." Show me the jobs. > > *sigh* > > A little intentional focus on this kind of evidence, on > *applied* "better, quicker" can only help web2py. > > Thinking about "I think this will be easier" is fun, creative; > When it works in many hands / many situations, is work, not always so much > "fun"; > this is what builds confidence. > This is nothing new. > > For _your_ comfort, I will say no more on this topic - regardles, I think > that clear talk about this topic is in the best interests of web2py, the > web2py community. > > > > > Massimo > > Yarko --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. To post to this group, send email to web2py@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
