Hi!I know people who develop on Windows today, no problems. I know people who develop on Linux, they way the only problem is that EOGenerator does not run, but a) EOGenerator is not even made by Apple, and 2) There is a Java replacement on Wonder, I think, although I'm not sure.
Also, you don't need an xServe to deploy. People are using Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, with no problems at all. It's Java. That's the point!
This being said, I think that if your client wants to abandon WO, the problem is not in WO, but in your client. Apple may not officially support non-Mac platforms, but we know it works, and at least Apple offers official support for their platform. Look at the open source stuff. Do they offer support for anything at all? No. If you can make it work, cool, if not, who cares.
WebKit is a different story, but even WebKit only became anything serious after Apple "closed-sourced" it for a long time, and worked alone, using their own guidelines, orientation, talent and strategy to build a decent product. They only open sourced it after being "good enough", and because legally they really had to.
When you say "I know many developpers that wil be back on the WO side, if Apple opensource WO, but they are currently using uggly technology, just for eating.", what are the arguments they present? It's not enough to say "oh, i don't use WO because it's not open- source.". They must say WHY. Open-source originally was a good ideia for some kind of projects, but it has a lot of drawbacks, specially when you look at the quality of the products, because a lof of people work on it and because many times there's not a roadmap for the product. Unfortunately it has become a comercial buzzword (how ironic, isn't it?), and many people say they will only use open source stuff because it's an hype, they don't really know why. I don't call that "thinking different", I don't even call that "thinking".
That's why I asked for argumentation to your petition. WHY do you want it to be open-sourced. What will we win and loose with it. I'm waiting!
Yours Miguel Arroz On 2007/10/03, at 09:17, Stephane Guyot wrote:
Ian, David, Miguel ... I can't agree with you.My last client, is looking for WO replacement because of lack of windows and linux support. Ten years of WO development without roadmap, multi to mono platform support, ....Actually I'm just trying to convince my new client to use WO, we develops on Mac and windows, we are using FLEX, ( opensource, multiplatform ...),but I can't them : now we just needs to drop server and buy Xserve :-)I simply hate, J2EE , Spring, Struts, Hibernate .... I want to continue with WO, but not at home in my job.StephanePS : WebKit is open source and use by many companies, Nokia, Adobe for AIR, it's not a good idea ? I know many developpers that wil be back on the WO side, if Apple opensource WO, but they are currently using uggly technology, just for eating.Le 3 oct. 07 à 02:51, Ian Joyner a écrit :I agree – calling for open source is not thinking different, it's thinking the same. This industry is too full of popular solutions that don't really address the real problem. I think that's what Steve means when he says think different, address the problem and the need. I don't think open source will solve WO's problems, that doesn't mean that I don't think it would be nice to be able to browse through the code, but evaluate what the problems are and then solve those problems. I think Pierre's group at Apple are doing that.Ian On 03/10/2007, at 7:13 AM, David LeBer wrote:On 2-Oct-07, at 5:04 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:Hi!Think different: please present any valid arguments to sustain your request.Think different: please request what you want through the proper channels. People are trying to create a WO Community, being the communication between WO users and Apple a goal. If you want to help and to make your voice be heard, you should help building the WO Community, instead of flooding the mail-list.Think different: please THINK if open sourcing WO is what you really want. Because what I want is Apple to actively develop it, doing a good job that results in innovative features and QUALITY work, and yes, documented. How many Web frameworks do you know that are innovative, with a solid, very solid code base (with a few bugs, naturally), and well documented... AND OPEN SOURCE? Because I don't know any one.Think different: open source WO clones/copies/alternatives (use whatever pleases you) exist. Do you use them? No. Why? Because WO is still the best. Did being open source helped? I don't think so.Think different: if you REALLY need to look at the WO source, you know you can.Think different: again, stop flooding my mailbox. If you really want to make your point, put together some decent arguments, talk with the people who are working to build the WO Community, and use them to get in touch with Apple.I don't mean to be rude, but this is getting a little childish...I was just about to click send on a message that said the same thing...OK, not the same thing, Miguel said it better :-) ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ian.joyner% 40sportstec.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ stephane.guyot11%40wanadoo.frThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/arroz% 40guiamac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Miguel Arroz http://www.terminalapp.net http://www.ipragma.com
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