While on the topic of delay shroud updates, could this setting be remembered? Every time I play, I (and many others) forget to turn it back on right away. This generally isn't a problem until you misclick, kicking yourself for forgetting yet again.
George B wrote: > As another MP dev I'd like to jump on board. I think this is a great > idea. Many players use the "delay shroud updates" option - myself > included and as Gabriel points out, coordinating with allies after 15+ > moves that your ally can't see is a real headache. I think that this > annoyance is only likely to grow with time because of the addition of > MP campaigns and the dearth of MP user made content. Now allies are > not pressed for time because they are fighting a computer, and they > might be pushing around many more units than in a normal MP game. So > this is a timely and desirable feature IMHO! > > Wwith regard to sharing the same info with enemies, I would lean > toward saying "yes", or at least having it be optional. Currently > many players don't delay shroud updates anyway, so > much competitive play basically has this info in public anyway. I > think from a gameplay point of view it makes sense to say that "all > undoable moves are public" and just leave it at that. However, I > don't have a strong opinion about the secondary issue, so either way > is fine by me. > > I'll second what Noy said about allowing undoable attacks or moves to > avoid luck - this is a bad precedent to start and is likely to lead to > much trouble IMO. > > Regards, > > George aka Wintermute (happygrue) > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Noy <neuhauserc...@gmail.com > <mailto:neuhauserc...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Umm, I don't think we'd accept that idea. The whole idea about the > current set up is to to encourage players to think about > probabilities and act accordingly. If you mess up, you shouldn't > just be able to undo and try to get a better result... we might as > well just strip RNG out of the game if that was the case. For > single player, the current system prevents re-rolling for a better > outcome by forcing players to go through an involved process if > they want a redo, but not too involved. Its a good compromise in > my mind. Moreover we'd never accept this for a competitive game > because probabilities management is THE core skill that determines > who wins. Your proposal weakens that significantly. More often > than not there is disagreement over what is considered bad luck, > so adding a system that allows subjective judgements to influence > outcomes is a whole can of worms I'd rather avoid. > > Noy > > On 10-Mar-10, at 9:34 AM, Greg Boggs wrote: > >> A related idea to this is to allow you to redo a move if you both >> agree to it. When your playing with someone trying to teach them, >> and they make a bad move, it would be infinitely valuable to be >> able to take back their move without having to quit and reload >> the game. >> >> This option would also be very fun in competitive games. When >> horrible bad luck strikes the other team, and you want to give >> them another shot, so that you can continue the game. >> >> Gabriel Morin wrote: >>> Hi everybody, >>> >>> Last year I couldn't get my Wesnoth GSoC submission >>> <http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_gabba> accepted, >>> but I'm very motivated to get in this year. I've been wanting to >>> contribute to Wesnoth for a long time, and the GSoC seems like >>> the ideal kickstart to get to know the codebase. >>> Unless I get conflicting course schedules next session this will >>> me my last summer as a student - next year will be my fourth and >>> last in software engineering at École Polytechnique de Montréal >>> - , so it's now or never! >>> >>> I've been posting a few ideas on the forums, and this one in >>> particular has been well-received >>> <http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29102&start=0>. >>> (I'll copy the text at the bottom of this email to allow for >>> easy commenting.) Since apparently you devs don't frequent the >>> forums that much, I'd like to have your opinion on: >>> 1- Whether this is a desirable feature >>> 2- Whether this is a good idea for a GSoC project: how much >>> work, how many things to modify? >>> 3- Which are the areas of the code I should start looking at? >>> 4- What would be an easy coding project I can use to show what I >>> can do, and get to know these areas of the code better? >>> >>> After browsing the GSoC 2010 current list of ideas, I find this >>> one more motivating, because it would have a direct effect on my >>> wesnoth gaming experience. This said, some of the other ideas >>> look interesting as well, so I'm not putting all my eggs in one >>> basket, i.e. I'm open to other options. I'm even thinking of >>> making several proposals, but from my experience last year >>> making a detailed one is very time-consuming, so we'll see. >>> >>> Without further introduction, here's my proposal: >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Main idea: Share undoable moves with allies >>> >>> Currently when playing a coop game (either RPG or more standard >>> multiplayer campaign), there are several things that really irk >>> me when it's not my turn: >>> >>> * You wait a long time before seeing anything happening >>> * When your ally who's taking his turn finally attacks an >>> enemy or makes another non-undoable move, you have to sit >>> through a delayed replay of his moves. If he already >>> finished his turn, your ally has to wait while you watch this. >>> * After a few undoable moves by either allied player, >>> communication is completely out of sync. If you tell your >>> ally, "look, I'm encircling his leader", he has no clue >>> what you're talking about: he doesn't see what you're >>> doing. If your ally asks you "should I move my white mage >>> here to heal you units next turn", you 1) have no clue >>> about which hex "here" is supposed to mean 2) even if you >>> did, you can't adequately counsel him, since you don't see >>> how he positioned his other units >>> >>> >>> I think the reasonable solution is simply to add an option >>> called Share undoable moves with allies. Both you and your ally >>> need to enable it for it to work. If you both have it enabled, >>> what it does is it shows you your allies' moves exactly as if >>> you were staring at the same screen while he plays his turn. Net >>> effect: you don't wait forever for something to happen, you >>> don't sit through a replay and make others wait in the >>> meanwhile, and you can actually shout to your ally on skype "NO >>> idiot, don't move your white mage there!" before it's too late. >>> >>> When sharing undoable moves, some mild confusion might happen >>> when you ally undoes a move: if you're not paying attention >>> (after all the unit just changed from "red" movement status to >>> "yellow" or "green" orb), you might think you're witnessing a >>> move instead of an undo. This is why extra visual clues would be >>> needed in that mode, possibly just a red UNDO text that floats >>> up from the unit, or alternate red footsteps symbols that the >>> unit gobbles up backwards as it goes back to its previous location. >>> >>> For the true "over the shoulder" experience, I think this option >>> should show you everything, down to the attack dialogue your >>> ally gets when he attacks an enemy. This way you can discuss >>> which attack he should use, while you both see the attack stats >>> and odds. Same thing for the recruit and unit upgrade dialogues. >>> All those would make for a more interesting coop experience, and >>> would be especially good for teaching newbs to the game. >>> Oh yeah, and those chargen menus from Bobs' RPG era and the like >>> would also fall in this category: help your friends choose their >>> class and starting items instead of staring blankly at the screen. >>> >>> Optional, secondary idea: Share undoable moves with enemies >>> >>> I don't expect this second idea to be very popular, but the >>> thing is: if the first one is implemented, this one will almost >>> be free to implement. So we might as well discuss it, too. >>> A "Share undoable moves with enemies" option would simply show >>> your opponents all your moves as you do them, even those that >>> can be undone. It does remove some waiting boredom, like the >>> first option. It would be useful when you want to play >>> chess-style (where a moved piece is a moved piece, no undo), but >>> without fiddling with the scenarios options to disable undo. And >>> contrary to a fixed scenario option, it allows you to still >>> agree on "friendly undos" from time to time: "this was too >>> stupid, can I move it back?" --"Sure, go ahead". >>> A second use is when you just don't care if the opponent can >>> read your mind by seeing your every move, either because your >>> skill level is greatly superior, or the game is very casual >>> (i.e. you're playing with your younger brother), and you just >>> want to make the game less boring by minimizing the waiting factor. >>> Sharing undoable moves from enemies would probably make "delay >>> shroud updates" useless, but after all they are somewhat >>> incompatible ideas. >>> >>> ---- >>> P.S. I don't use mailing lists that much and I don't know if any >>> of you use old-fashioned mail readers, so if I commited a >>> capital sin by using html formatting (from the gmail editor) >>> such as hyperlinks or bold text, please let me know. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >>> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> >>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> >> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Wesnoth-dev mailing list > Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> > https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev > > > > > -- > The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding > bureaucracy. > > "With your head full of brains and your shoes full of feet, you're too > smart to go down any not so good street." - D.S. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wesnoth-dev mailing list > Wesnoth-dev@gna.org > https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev > _______________________________________________ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
