having an option "delay shroud update on new game" would be a great EasyCoding task, feel free to implement it/add it to EasyCoding if you have your platefull with something else...
Boucman On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Greg Boggs <g...@humhost.com> wrote: > While on the topic of delay shroud updates, could this setting be > remembered? Every time I play, I (and many others) forget to turn it > back on right away. This generally isn't a problem until you misclick, > kicking yourself for forgetting yet again. > > George B wrote: >> As another MP dev I'd like to jump on board. I think this is a great >> idea. Many players use the "delay shroud updates" option - myself >> included and as Gabriel points out, coordinating with allies after 15+ >> moves that your ally can't see is a real headache. I think that this >> annoyance is only likely to grow with time because of the addition of >> MP campaigns and the dearth of MP user made content. Now allies are >> not pressed for time because they are fighting a computer, and they >> might be pushing around many more units than in a normal MP game. So >> this is a timely and desirable feature IMHO! >> >> Wwith regard to sharing the same info with enemies, I would lean >> toward saying "yes", or at least having it be optional. Currently >> many players don't delay shroud updates anyway, so >> much competitive play basically has this info in public anyway. I >> think from a gameplay point of view it makes sense to say that "all >> undoable moves are public" and just leave it at that. However, I >> don't have a strong opinion about the secondary issue, so either way >> is fine by me. >> >> I'll second what Noy said about allowing undoable attacks or moves to >> avoid luck - this is a bad precedent to start and is likely to lead to >> much trouble IMO. >> >> Regards, >> >> George aka Wintermute (happygrue) >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Noy <neuhauserc...@gmail.com >> <mailto:neuhauserc...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Umm, I don't think we'd accept that idea. The whole idea about the >> current set up is to to encourage players to think about >> probabilities and act accordingly. If you mess up, you shouldn't >> just be able to undo and try to get a better result... we might as >> well just strip RNG out of the game if that was the case. For >> single player, the current system prevents re-rolling for a better >> outcome by forcing players to go through an involved process if >> they want a redo, but not too involved. Its a good compromise in >> my mind. Moreover we'd never accept this for a competitive game >> because probabilities management is THE core skill that determines >> who wins. Your proposal weakens that significantly. More often >> than not there is disagreement over what is considered bad luck, >> so adding a system that allows subjective judgements to influence >> outcomes is a whole can of worms I'd rather avoid. >> >> Noy >> >> On 10-Mar-10, at 9:34 AM, Greg Boggs wrote: >> >>> A related idea to this is to allow you to redo a move if you both >>> agree to it. When your playing with someone trying to teach them, >>> and they make a bad move, it would be infinitely valuable to be >>> able to take back their move without having to quit and reload >>> the game. >>> >>> This option would also be very fun in competitive games. When >>> horrible bad luck strikes the other team, and you want to give >>> them another shot, so that you can continue the game. >>> >>> Gabriel Morin wrote: >>>> Hi everybody, >>>> >>>> Last year I couldn't get my Wesnoth GSoC submission >>>> <http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_gabba> accepted, >>>> but I'm very motivated to get in this year. I've been wanting to >>>> contribute to Wesnoth for a long time, and the GSoC seems like >>>> the ideal kickstart to get to know the codebase. >>>> Unless I get conflicting course schedules next session this will >>>> me my last summer as a student - next year will be my fourth and >>>> last in software engineering at École Polytechnique de Montréal >>>> - , so it's now or never! >>>> >>>> I've been posting a few ideas on the forums, and this one in >>>> particular has been well-received >>>> <http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29102&start=0>. >>>> (I'll copy the text at the bottom of this email to allow for >>>> easy commenting.) Since apparently you devs don't frequent the >>>> forums that much, I'd like to have your opinion on: >>>> 1- Whether this is a desirable feature >>>> 2- Whether this is a good idea for a GSoC project: how much >>>> work, how many things to modify? >>>> 3- Which are the areas of the code I should start looking at? >>>> 4- What would be an easy coding project I can use to show what I >>>> can do, and get to know these areas of the code better? >>>> >>>> After browsing the GSoC 2010 current list of ideas, I find this >>>> one more motivating, because it would have a direct effect on my >>>> wesnoth gaming experience. This said, some of the other ideas >>>> look interesting as well, so I'm not putting all my eggs in one >>>> basket, i.e. I'm open to other options. I'm even thinking of >>>> making several proposals, but from my experience last year >>>> making a detailed one is very time-consuming, so we'll see. >>>> >>>> Without further introduction, here's my proposal: >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Main idea: Share undoable moves with allies >>>> >>>> Currently when playing a coop game (either RPG or more standard >>>> multiplayer campaign), there are several things that really irk >>>> me when it's not my turn: >>>> >>>> * You wait a long time before seeing anything happening >>>> * When your ally who's taking his turn finally attacks an >>>> enemy or makes another non-undoable move, you have to sit >>>> through a delayed replay of his moves. If he already >>>> finished his turn, your ally has to wait while you watch this. >>>> * After a few undoable moves by either allied player, >>>> communication is completely out of sync. If you tell your >>>> ally, "look, I'm encircling his leader", he has no clue >>>> what you're talking about: he doesn't see what you're >>>> doing. If your ally asks you "should I move my white mage >>>> here to heal you units next turn", you 1) have no clue >>>> about which hex "here" is supposed to mean 2) even if you >>>> did, you can't adequately counsel him, since you don't see >>>> how he positioned his other units >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the reasonable solution is simply to add an option >>>> called Share undoable moves with allies. Both you and your ally >>>> need to enable it for it to work. If you both have it enabled, >>>> what it does is it shows you your allies' moves exactly as if >>>> you were staring at the same screen while he plays his turn. Net >>>> effect: you don't wait forever for something to happen, you >>>> don't sit through a replay and make others wait in the >>>> meanwhile, and you can actually shout to your ally on skype "NO >>>> idiot, don't move your white mage there!" before it's too late. >>>> >>>> When sharing undoable moves, some mild confusion might happen >>>> when you ally undoes a move: if you're not paying attention >>>> (after all the unit just changed from "red" movement status to >>>> "yellow" or "green" orb), you might think you're witnessing a >>>> move instead of an undo. This is why extra visual clues would be >>>> needed in that mode, possibly just a red UNDO text that floats >>>> up from the unit, or alternate red footsteps symbols that the >>>> unit gobbles up backwards as it goes back to its previous location. >>>> >>>> For the true "over the shoulder" experience, I think this option >>>> should show you everything, down to the attack dialogue your >>>> ally gets when he attacks an enemy. This way you can discuss >>>> which attack he should use, while you both see the attack stats >>>> and odds. Same thing for the recruit and unit upgrade dialogues. >>>> All those would make for a more interesting coop experience, and >>>> would be especially good for teaching newbs to the game. >>>> Oh yeah, and those chargen menus from Bobs' RPG era and the like >>>> would also fall in this category: help your friends choose their >>>> class and starting items instead of staring blankly at the screen. >>>> >>>> Optional, secondary idea: Share undoable moves with enemies >>>> >>>> I don't expect this second idea to be very popular, but the >>>> thing is: if the first one is implemented, this one will almost >>>> be free to implement. So we might as well discuss it, too. >>>> A "Share undoable moves with enemies" option would simply show >>>> your opponents all your moves as you do them, even those that >>>> can be undone. It does remove some waiting boredom, like the >>>> first option. It would be useful when you want to play >>>> chess-style (where a moved piece is a moved piece, no undo), but >>>> without fiddling with the scenarios options to disable undo. And >>>> contrary to a fixed scenario option, it allows you to still >>>> agree on "friendly undos" from time to time: "this was too >>>> stupid, can I move it back?" --"Sure, go ahead". >>>> A second use is when you just don't care if the opponent can >>>> read your mind by seeing your every move, either because your >>>> skill level is greatly superior, or the game is very casual >>>> (i.e. you're playing with your younger brother), and you just >>>> want to make the game less boring by minimizing the waiting factor. >>>> Sharing undoable moves from enemies would probably make "delay >>>> shroud updates" useless, but after all they are somewhat >>>> incompatible ideas. >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> P.S. I don't use mailing lists that much and I don't know if any >>>> of you use old-fashioned mail readers, so if I commited a >>>> capital sin by using html formatting (from the gmail editor) >>>> such as hyperlinks or bold text, please let me know. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >>>> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> >>>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >>> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> >>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org <mailto:Wesnoth-dev@gna.org> >> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding >> bureaucracy. >> >> "With your head full of brains and your shoes full of feet, you're too >> smart to go down any not so good street." - D.S. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wesnoth-dev mailing list >> Wesnoth-dev@gna.org >> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wesnoth-dev mailing list > Wesnoth-dev@gna.org > https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev > _______________________________________________ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
