Jodi, You have a good point about the ease of changing WikiSym and opening a new track, but I wonder why an author might choose to submit a "working paper" and pay for travel to a conference if they'll end up submitting the final product to a place where they receive credit anyway.
Since WikiSym is intended to be a terminal publication venue, I'd like that all who submit (and are accepted) get the appropriate amount of credit for their work, but I understand that it would be naive to expect the world to be able/willing to quickly change. -Aaron On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jodi Schneider <jschnei...@pobox.com>wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > I think Dariusz' suggestion is that we add a conference track for > non-archival "working papers" from social scientists. > > It is much faster for WikiSym to change than for the recognition > environment of all social scientists to change. Even if we mark papers as > archival the 'conference' label may still be a downside. > > What do you think? > > -Jodi > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Aaron Halfaker > <aaron.halfa...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Can we not just label which of our accepted papers are archival? It >> seems that some disciplines assume Journal == Archival and Conference != >> Archival. This is apparently inaccurate in other disciplines so there must >> be some reason we don't just note which papers are archived and which are >> not. I don't see it though. >> >> -Aaron >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak <dar...@alk.edu.pl>wrote: >> >>> I think it basically is a different publication model. You probably >>> could have two track (one for final, the other for working papers) so as to >>> address the disciplines which rely on journals as final outlets. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dj >>> 20 lis 2012 20:26, "Jodi Schneider" <jschnei...@pobox.com> napisał(a): >>> >>> Hi Dariusz, >>>> >>>> For reusing the paper unchanged this is indeed a problem. "Journal" >>>> could be added to the list of mentioned reuse venues--but this still >>>> wouldn't imply that the entirety of the paper could be used without change, >>>> I suspect. For ACM conferences, there are two types of papers: >>>> >>>> - archival >>>> - non-archival >>>> >>>> Archival papers are published in the ACM digital library, in the >>>> conference proceedings, and are considered final research products to be >>>> cited. >>>> >>>> Non-archival papers are not considered final research products and (as >>>> far as I know) don't require copyright transfer. >>>> >>>> Aside from making papers destined to be used VERBATIM without change in >>>> journals 'non-archival', how could this be addressed? >>>> >>>> -Jodi >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak >>>> <dar...@alk.edu.pl>wrote: >>>> >>>>> hi Jodi, >>>>> >>>>> the conferences I attend or follow (e.g. EGOS, AoM, APROS. >>>>> SFAA) afaik do not typically require signed copyright notices at all, and >>>>> if they do, the copyright is granted specifically for publishing in the >>>>> proceedings, and legally resembles a license more, than a full copyright >>>>> transfer. The problem with your copyright form, as I read it, is that ACM >>>>> receives and retains all rights (which may be not welcome by some journal >>>>> publishers, and you never know where eventually you're going to try to >>>>> publish, so why risk?), and also that it does not specify journal articles >>>>> as acceptable forms of future reusing the paper. >>>>> >>>>> In fact, the copyright form is very similar to the forms used by >>>>> journals (many of which allow publishing the article on a personal page or >>>>> in future book works, if proper attribution is provided). This also may >>>>> indicate to some possible attendants that WikiSym conference publication >>>>> is >>>>> an alternative to a journal publication. >>>>> >>>>> In my field a conference paper does not count as a publication and is >>>>> usually treated as a way of improving the paper before submitting it to a >>>>> journal. Thus the possibility that you're going to use the paper almost >>>>> verbatim in a journal submission is quite real. These differences >>>>> possibly >>>>> may result in WikiSym, as a conference and only in some disciplines, >>>>> being >>>>> less popular than it deserves. >>>>> >>>>> best, >>>>> >>>>> dariusz >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Jodi Schneider >>>>> <jschnei...@pobox.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Dariusz, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is interesting, because if we can articulate problems in the >>>>>> copyright notice, we may be able to fix them. Currently, for WikiSym, the >>>>>> ACM Publications copyright form for proceedings is used: >>>>>> >>>>>> *http://www.acm.org/publications/CopyReleaseProc-9-12.pdf* >>>>>> This includes: >>>>>> * The right to reuse any portion of the Work, without fee, in future >>>>>> works of the Author's (or Author's Employer's) own, including books, >>>>>> lectures and presentations in all media, provided that the ACM citation, >>>>>> notice of the Copyright and the ACM DOI are included ... >>>>>> >>>>>> * The right to revise the work. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is a typical copyright notice for conferences you *do* publish >>>>>> in? What rights do you need? >>>>>> >>>>>> In computer science, typically a journal publication arising in part >>>>>> from a conference paper would include new results, or several papers >>>>>> would >>>>>> be combined. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Jodi >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <dar...@alk.edu.pl >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is why conferences such as WikiSym are not very attractive for >>>>>>> my field, as they require some copyright transfer (which may effectively >>>>>>> make publishing in the final destination difficult). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> __________________________ >>>>> dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak >>>>> profesor zarządzania >>>>> kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego >>>>> i centrum badawczego CROW >>>>> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego >>>>> http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > >
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