Thiemo, thanks, I understand that I can use the order from that page as well as invent my own order. My point is that it would be nice to have a way to represent data same way as Wikidata site does. Since I see the same claims layout every time I refresh a page, I assume this order is fixed and stored somewhere in the system (not on a separate page).
Markus, yes I want to keep properties grouped, values within a group ordered and so on and so on... everything like we have on a web page. Whoever wants, can sort the data as he wish, be any existing property, but the ability to sort "as in the UI" is also desired. My suggestions: • Implement API action (e.g. wbgetproperties) returning all Wikidata properties with the current UI order. • Add an integer value per claim and per value (and per qualified value?) indicating the current order of them in UI. No fights for the order. Who wants, will use it or will sort by other features. Is it the right place to post such suggestions? If not please tell me the proper place. Thanks, Vlad <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Без вирусов. www.avast.ru <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> 2017-11-29 15:35 GMT+03:00 Markus Krötzsch <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>: > Dear Vlad, > > Ordering claims on a page as you suggest would not work well, since > several other orders must take precedence over the order you suggest. First > of all, statements are grouped by property and you don't want to change > this. Hence, you cannot use the order across statements of different > properties, since this would force you in some cases to ungroup (which > would have other disadvantages). > > Second, it makes sense to order statements of one property by other > aspects, e.g., by time, to make it possible for humans to find something. > Hence, again, we are not free to use the order to encode further > information. > > So what remains is to order quantifiers inside statements, but there it is > rarely relevant (usually there are only a few qualifiers and all of them > can be seen at once, without getting tired). > > In summary, order does not lend itself as a way to encode much additional > information, since there are usability concerns that make you want to > change order in different contexts (or maybe for different users), since > order cannot be preserved when remixing data, and since it is overall too > implicit for people to build up a shared understanding of what it is > supposed to mean (you don't want fights about whether some item has to be > in fourth or fifth position of some list based on some vague understanding > of "quality" or "trustworthiness" -- it would be very hard to find > objective arguments for or against a particular order). > > Cheers, > > Markus > > > On 29.11.2017 12:45, Владимир Рябцев wrote: > >> OK Lydia, what is the purpose of giving order of qualifiers then? >> >> Along with helping to give a user a better representation of data, the >> order can be useful in automated processing of properties. To my mind, it >> starts with the most important entity data. Moreover, in case of >> contradiction, I would assume that first properties are “ranked” higher. >> After all we are humans and pay more attention to the top of page. Our mind >> may get bit tired by the end of page. In an ideal world you are right that >> order does not matter, but in the reality it may help algorithms. >> >> Vlad >> >> 29 нояб. 2017 г., в 14:19, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> >>> написал(а): >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Владимир Рябцев <greatvo...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> Thanks for the link with sorted properties. Is this page updated >>>> automatically or maintained manually by someone? In latter case this >>>> looks >>>> weird to me, because the order may become not actual at some moment. >>>> >>> >>> Yes it is maintained by hand by the editors. >>> >>> It is curious that when properties are used as qualifiers we have a >>>> separate >>>> field specifying the order (called ‘qualifiers-order’). Why not to add >>>> the >>>> same at the top-level of entity definition? >>>> >>> >>> It is just a heading to make the page more manageable - it doesn't >>> have a meaning beyond that. >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> Lydia >>> >>> -- >>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher >>> Product Manager for Wikidata >>> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. >>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 >>> 10963 Berlin >>> www.wikimedia.de >>> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. >>> >>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >>> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata-tech mailing list >>> Wikidata-tech@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-tech >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-tech mailing list >> Wikidata-tech@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-tech >> >> >
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