As a follow-up, I analyzed the properties mentioned in https://www.wikidata .org/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-SortedProperties and it turns out it lacks PLENTY of properties we usually work with. From 1400+ properties we normally use, there are only 480 on this page :(
Vlad 2017-11-29 16:13 GMT+03:00 Vladimir Ryabtsev <greatvo...@gmail.com>: > Thiemo, thanks, I understand that I can use the order from that page as > well as invent my own order. My point is that it would be nice to have a > way to represent data same way as Wikidata site does. Since I see the > same claims layout every time I refresh a page, I assume this order is > fixed and stored somewhere in the system (not on a separate page). > > Markus, yes I want to keep properties grouped, values within a group > ordered and so on and so on... everything like we have on a web page. > Whoever wants, can sort the data as he wish, be any existing property, but > the ability to sort "as in the UI" is also desired. > > My suggestions: > • Implement API action (e.g. wbgetproperties) returning all Wikidata > properties with the current UI order. > • Add an integer value per claim and per value (and per qualified value?) > indicating the current order of them in UI. No fights for the order. Who > wants, will use it or will sort by other features. > > Is it the right place to post such suggestions? If not please tell me the > proper place. > > Thanks, > Vlad > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > Без > вирусов. www.avast.ru > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > <#m_4939092080553920555_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > 2017-11-29 15:35 GMT+03:00 Markus Krötzsch <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> > : > >> Dear Vlad, >> >> Ordering claims on a page as you suggest would not work well, since >> several other orders must take precedence over the order you suggest. First >> of all, statements are grouped by property and you don't want to change >> this. Hence, you cannot use the order across statements of different >> properties, since this would force you in some cases to ungroup (which >> would have other disadvantages). >> >> Second, it makes sense to order statements of one property by other >> aspects, e.g., by time, to make it possible for humans to find something. >> Hence, again, we are not free to use the order to encode further >> information. >> >> So what remains is to order quantifiers inside statements, but there it >> is rarely relevant (usually there are only a few qualifiers and all of them >> can be seen at once, without getting tired). >> >> In summary, order does not lend itself as a way to encode much additional >> information, since there are usability concerns that make you want to >> change order in different contexts (or maybe for different users), since >> order cannot be preserved when remixing data, and since it is overall too >> implicit for people to build up a shared understanding of what it is >> supposed to mean (you don't want fights about whether some item has to be >> in fourth or fifth position of some list based on some vague understanding >> of "quality" or "trustworthiness" -- it would be very hard to find >> objective arguments for or against a particular order). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Markus >> >> >> On 29.11.2017 12:45, Владимир Рябцев wrote: >> >>> OK Lydia, what is the purpose of giving order of qualifiers then? >>> >>> Along with helping to give a user a better representation of data, the >>> order can be useful in automated processing of properties. To my mind, it >>> starts with the most important entity data. Moreover, in case of >>> contradiction, I would assume that first properties are “ranked” higher. >>> After all we are humans and pay more attention to the top of page. Our mind >>> may get bit tired by the end of page. In an ideal world you are right that >>> order does not matter, but in the reality it may help algorithms. >>> >>> Vlad >>> >>> 29 нояб. 2017 г., в 14:19, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> >>>> написал(а): >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Владимир Рябцев <greatvo...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Thanks for the link with sorted properties. Is this page updated >>>>> automatically or maintained manually by someone? In latter case this >>>>> looks >>>>> weird to me, because the order may become not actual at some moment. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes it is maintained by hand by the editors. >>>> >>>> It is curious that when properties are used as qualifiers we have a >>>>> separate >>>>> field specifying the order (called ‘qualifiers-order’). Why not to add >>>>> the >>>>> same at the top-level of entity definition? >>>>> >>>> >>>> It is just a heading to make the page more manageable - it doesn't >>>> have a meaning beyond that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Lydia >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher >>>> Product Manager for Wikidata >>>> >>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. >>>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 >>>> 10963 Berlin >>>> www.wikimedia.de >>>> >>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. >>>> >>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >>>> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >>>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata-tech mailing list >>>> Wikidata-tech@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-tech >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata-tech mailing list >>> Wikidata-tech@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-tech >>> >>> >> >
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