Hi Lisa, Thank you for the explanation. Can you post that in the blog entry and on the donation page? I understand how calculating annual limits might be more trouble than it's worth from WMF's point of view. Thanks, Pine
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Lisa Gruwell <lgruw...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hi Pine- > > The threshold is an aggregate limit in a calendar year. If we were to > limit the donation amount to under $5000, a person could give several > donations that totaled over $5000 in a single year (which happens) and then > we would not be compliance. Instead of trying to create a spike for every > scenario like this, we find it safest just to ask for the information. > > Best, > Lisa > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Heh. If this discussion gets too technical we can move it off-list. At > the > > moment if Fundraising just wants to say "we'll work on this for future > > improvenents to the Bitcoin donation system" and posting that statement > in > > the blog entry and the donation screen would be ok IMO. > > > > I am rarely satisfied with "it's complicated" as an answer to anything. > (: > > > > Pine > > On Jul 30, 2014 2:47 PM, "Pete Forsyth" <petefors...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Sure -- I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask, and > > reasonable > > > discussion to have. It just appeared to me that you were expecting a > > > detailed explanation from the chief revenue officer, which didn't seem > > like > > > a reasonable expectation. Maybe I was wrong though. If others want to > use > > > this list to debate the finer points of US tax law and effective > privacy > > > practices for donations, I won't be the one standing in the way :) > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > In the crowdsourced world, I like to think that we evaluate ideas and > > > > programs based on their merits rather than who makes a decision. I > > grant > > > > that some heirarchy is good and necessary, and in this case the > > heirarchy > > > > made a reasoned decision to include Bitcoin in the donation options, > > and > > > > did so in a way that makes a lot of sense except that one of the > > primary > > > > attractions of Bitcoin, privacy, seems to have not been a priority. > I'm > > > > asking about how this can be addressed. It's possible that WMF can't > > > offer > > > > to accept anonymous bitcoin donations at all, but as an optimist I > like > > > to > > > > think that it can, and my experience with other nonprofits is that > > > > anonymous donations are possible. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > On Jul 30, 2014 2:26 PM, "Pete Forsyth" <petefors...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Pine, I think Lisa already answered your question -- it's > > complicated. > > > > It's > > > > > possible (based on my limited knowledge, anyway) that what you > > suggest > > > is > > > > > possible; but she never said it was impossible. She said it was the > > > > safest > > > > > approach, given a complicated scenario. This is her professional > > > > expertise, > > > > > so we have to assume a basic level of competence to make those > > judgment > > > > > calls. > > > > > > > > > > Don't we? > > > > > Pete > > > > > [[User:Peteforsyth]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lisa, > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm, that is different from my understanding of the IRC. You are > > > > required > > > > > to > > > > > > offer a receipt, not to actually send one if the donor declines, > > > right? > > > > > > Then you could have a checkbox to disable personal info and the > > > > receipt. > > > > > > You could also enable anonymous donations under $5000 or whatever > > the > > > > > > threshold is for reporting the donor's info to the IRS, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014 2:06 PM, "Lisa Gruwell" <lgruw...@wikimedia.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Andrew said, it is complicated. We decided that asking for > > the > > > > > > > information was the safest approach and best enables to comply > > with > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > laws as well as laws in other countries. For example, we are > > > > required > > > > > to > > > > > > > send a receipt for tax purposes to U.S. donors who give over a > > > > certain > > > > > > > amount and we have already today received gifts through bitcoin > > > over > > > > > that > > > > > > > threshold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonprofits in the US are only required to report major donors > > > > AFAIK. > > > > > > > > Bitcoins aren't assets with more complicated transfer rules > > like > > > > > real > > > > > > > > estate or stock shares. Simple property donations like a can > of > > > > food > > > > > > for > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > food bank don't require identification info. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014 1:01 PM, "Andrew Gray" < > > > andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pine, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The IRS link includes the note that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A payment made using virtual currency is subject to > > > information > > > > > > > > > reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in > > > > > property." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - no expert, but I suspect this is the explanation. Because > > the > > > > IRS > > > > > > > > > treat bitcoin as "property" (like, eg, shares) rather than > > > > > currency, > > > > > > > > > it triggers different - and presumably more complex - > > reporting > > > > > > > > > requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 30 July 2014 20:20, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is a post on the blog saying that bitcoin is > accepted > > > but > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > several questions about why WMF is asking for contact > info. > > > Is > > > > > that > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > IRS > > > > > > > > > > requirement? Might want to post the reason in the blog > > entry. > > > > > AFAIK > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > the nonprofits I donate to none require personal info for > > > small > > > > > > > > > > contributions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > - Andrew Gray > > > > > > > > > andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
