Seriously, it's just board and affcom doing their job ... And oh surprise, they did not involved the whole communities on temporary criteria ... I just want to thanks them for not wasting my time.
I'd rather be involve in the strategy! 2016-08-23 9:44 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>: > I dont see how a dissenting voice would be a surprise, I suppose you could > be surprised at my choice of language (blunter than I normally use) or at > my expectations from Affcom but being here in Australia we are isolated we > dont get the opportunities like people in Europe and America to be part of > the discussions behind those closed doors. When changes happen we dont > normally hear about them but are expected to follow them. > > What I see is that Affcom has drifted from being a voice of the affiliates > to being just another bureaucracy which has resulted in exactly the same > response that caused affcom to be initially created back in 2012 with the > loose creation of a Latin America group, SE Asia group, Eastern Europe > groups being formed to give those chapters a voice they thought they had > with affcom. > > All we ever hear down here is the level of distrust and lack assumption of > good faith with more rules, more bureaucracy more power cabals. we make > rules to address things that might occur using language that shows a level > of distrust and badt faith . As a group we need to get back to trust and > assuming good faith. > > Choose language carefully, use wording to promote not put down, create > criteria thats boosts the affiliates we dont need to pull each other down > to make things better because we just happen to find it easy to make that > choice > > On 23 August 2016 at 14:46, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Gnangarra, > > > > This is not a discussion, and this is by design. > > > > As Carlos said, those are provisional criterias so that our movement can > > keep seeing new organizations blooming. But the discussion will not be > only > > about those criterias, but on a much larger, and I believe more > interesting > > and important, topic. > > > > As we're moving forward regarding the movement strategy process (more to > > come soon, it's only been 7 weeks since we announced that, and summer), > it > > is key to have discussions about the organizations in general. How do we > > make them work as a whole? What values do we want Wikimedia organizations > > to live by? etc. And out of those discussions, a criteria discussion will > > come. > > > > But it seemed quite a waste of time and energy to first have a > consultation > > about those provisional criterias and then another discussion about the > > strategy. > > > > That's for your point on the criterias. Now on the "Affcom whom I thought > > was there to support the Affiliates not punish them". Yes, AffCom support > > affiliates, but AffCom also has a duty to make sure that affiliates live > by > > their engagements. > > > > One doesn't exclude the other, quite the opposite actually. > > > > As a whole, I'm a bit surprized by your email. Things aren't black or > > white. > > > > Those criterias aren't up for discussion so that the discussion can > happen > > on a much larger topic that includes them. > > AffCom role is to tend to our movement affiliates, this comes with many > > duties and responsabilities amongst which helping organizations to get > > recognized, supporting them, helping them, remind them of their duties > and > > sometime (rarely hopefully) challenge their statuts. > > > > Happy to further that discussion, > > > > Have a all great day > > > > Christophe > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > So to clarify, this isnt a discussion its been mandated to happen, just > > > like Wikimania was mandated behind closed doors... > > > > > > sorry for it sounding like a dummy spit here but its nice to hear after > > all > > > of the upraor and damage done over the last 18 months the community was > > > heard and their requests were well and truly ignored by the BoT and now > > > Affcom whom I thought was there to support the Affiliates not punish > them > > > > > > On 23 August 2016 at 12:43, Salvador A <salvador1...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I want to close the chapter of this discussion related to > > > > quantitative-qualitative criteria in order to call your attention to > > some > > > > consequences of this new criteria for existing affiliates. I want to > be > > > > clear on this in order to avoid future missunderstandings. > > > > > > > > Romaine said that it's desirable to have already recognized > affiliates > > to > > > > meet this criteria. Both AffCom and BoT want this, and it's would be > > > unfair > > > > to require this criteria only for groups that want to get the ThOrg > and > > > > Chapter status and at the same time to have a lesser average of work > > > among > > > > those that already are recognized as such. Consequently, *every ThOrg > > and > > > > Chapter must comply with this criteria in order to get and keep > > affiliate > > > > status. *The idea is keeping the affiliates moving forward and to > avoid > > > to > > > > get them dormant. > > > > > > > > This criteria will be checked out during the annual review that WMF > > staff > > > > makes of Chapters and ThOrgs status (yes, the same that make you > > eligible > > > > to go to WMCON in Berlin) in case an affiliate doesn't meet the > > > > requirementes it will be reported to AffCom who will decide in every > > case > > > > if a recomendation to Board of Trustees is needed. > > > > > > > > --- > > > > *Possible questions:* > > > > > > > > *Q1: My chapter/ThOrg exists since many years ago, could I loose my > > > > recognition as chapter?* > > > > > > > > *A1:* Yes, if you don't meet the criteria and you don't repair the > > > > situation during some time after AffCom request, you can loose it. > > > > > > > > *Q2: How can I do to avoid this?* > > > > > > > > *A2:* Work hard, make activities, set goals and report. Ask for > AffCom, > > > WMF > > > > or other affiliates help if is needed. > > > > > > > > *Q3: But there are some chapters that have already many years without > > > > activity and nothing had happened so far.* > > > > > > > > *A3:* AffCom is already working on it. > > > > > > > > --- > > > > If you have any other questions on that doesn't hesitate in doing it, > > I'm > > > > sure Carlos will be happy of answer them :P > > > > > > > > Regards! > > > > > > > > 2016-08-22 22:31 GMT-05:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > Point Im trying to make is focus on the positives to achieve what > you > > > > > want, your path isnt necessarily be that which will help others, > > accept > > > > > that vague definitions is better than actual numbers to do that you > > > need > > > > to > > > > > assume good faith and trust that the vague will fair to challenges > we > > > all > > > > > face in own circumstances number are hard and fast they cant always > > be > > > > fair > > > > > > > > > > On 23 August 2016 at 11:20, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Gnangarra, > > > > >> > > > > >> I agree with you about the vision. I think that where we see > things > > > > >> differently may be in the discussion of how we achieve the vision. > > > > >> Individuals have a lot of freedom in the Wikimedia community, but > > > > >> organizations exist in a complicated world with real money, real > > laws, > > > > >> real > > > > >> people, and a variety of circumstances that can help or hinder > > > progress. > > > > >> We > > > > >> want to share the sum of human knowledge, and to do that > effectively > > > > >> requires a coordinated effort. Wikimedia is an incredibly > > complicated > > > > >> collection of entities, of which affiliates are a part. > > > > >> > > > > >> I am very mindful that real resources (time and money) are > involved > > in > > > > >> Wikimedia, and I would like those resources to be used wisely, > > > > >> transparently, and fairly in service of the mission. > > > > >> > > > > >> I need to depart thread so that I can focus on other projects, > but I > > > > plan > > > > >> to return here in a week or two. > > > > >> > > > > >> Pine > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > GN. > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Affiliates mailing list > > > > > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *Salvador Alcántar* > > > > *@salvador_alc* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > -- > GN. > President Wikimedia Australia > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- Pierre-Selim _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
