From the perspective of Wiki Project Med Foundation, I am happy to see criteria for thorg / chapter status. It makes a previously somewhat unclear application process more concrete.
James On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hi Brill, > > Everything is a discussion. There has been interesting points and > discussions for many mails, and we would like that to continue. Because all > of those opinions are interesting in setting the movement strategy. > > Howevere the *temporary* criteria are to be used by AffCom now. So that > AffCom can actually continue its work, and resume approving new chapters > (which was on hold for month) without postponing it. > > As we said on other emails few weeks, we want to use the coming year to > form a movement strategy. A strategy that is comprehensive of who we are, a > global movement. So it would be, I believe, a waste of time to work / > discuss over criterieas that will have to be adapted in a few month. > > The AffCom came up with, what I think, and from the previous emails, is > good criterias. They might need some interpretation, and I'm sure the > AffCom will not apply them bluntly. And again they are a temporary > framework. > > So again, not shutting down the discussion, discussion is more than welcome > and needed. But the discussion will impact the long term criterias and > AffCom role and responsabilities. which, I believe, is a much more > important discussions. And the different opinions voiced in reaction to > those criterias are really interesting. > > Have a nice day :) > > Christophe > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I am fundamentally dismayed to read the response that this is not a > > discussion. I am baffled. Shutting down discussion is rule #1 in NOT > > fostering community. > > > > To create a one-way flow of communication with parties engaged enough to > > take the time to actively discuss concerns is a non-ideal approach to > > engagement on any level. > > > > I haven't heard anything untoward in this discussion. Except the > > dismissive responses by those who seem to be on the committee. > > > > If this was a for-profit organization this response might be more > > understandable but as Wikimedia is most definitely NOT this approach > seems > > a real misstep. > > > > - Erika > > > > > On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:44 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > I dont see how a dissenting voice would be a surprise, I suppose you > > could be surprised at my choice of language (blunter than I normally use) > > or at my expectations from Affcom but being here in Australia we are > > isolated we dont get the opportunities like people in Europe and America > to > > be part of the discussions behind those closed doors. When changes happen > > we dont normally hear about them but are expected to follow them. > > > > > > What I see is that Affcom has drifted from being a voice of the > > affiliates to being just another bureaucracy which has resulted in > exactly > > the same response that caused affcom to be initially created back in 2012 > > with the loose creation of a Latin America group, SE Asia group, Eastern > > Europe groups being formed to give those chapters a voice they thought > they > > had with affcom. > > > > > > All we ever hear down here is the level of distrust and lack assumption > > of good faith with more rules, more bureaucracy more power cabals. we > > make rules to address things that might occur using language that shows a > > level of distrust and badt faith . As a group we need to get back to > trust > > and assuming good faith. > > > > > > Choose language carefully, use wording to promote not put down, create > > criteria thats boosts the affiliates we dont need to pull each other down > > to make things better because we just happen to find it easy to make > that > > choice > > > > > >> On 23 August 2016 at 14:46, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> > > wrote: > > >> Hi Gnangarra, > > >> > > >> This is not a discussion, and this is by design. > > >> > > >> As Carlos said, those are provisional criterias so that our movement > can > > >> keep seeing new organizations blooming. But the discussion will not be > > only > > >> about those criterias, but on a much larger, and I believe more > > interesting > > >> and important, topic. > > >> > > >> As we're moving forward regarding the movement strategy process (more > to > > >> come soon, it's only been 7 weeks since we announced that, and > summer), > > it > > >> is key to have discussions about the organizations in general. How do > we > > >> make them work as a whole? What values do we want Wikimedia > > organizations > > >> to live by? etc. And out of those discussions, a criteria discussion > > will > > >> come. > > >> > > >> But it seemed quite a waste of time and energy to first have a > > consultation > > >> about those provisional criterias and then another discussion about > the > > >> strategy. > > >> > > >> That's for your point on the criterias. Now on the "Affcom whom I > > thought > > >> was there to support the Affiliates not punish them". Yes, AffCom > > support > > >> affiliates, but AffCom also has a duty to make sure that affiliates > > live by > > >> their engagements. > > >> > > >> One doesn't exclude the other, quite the opposite actually. > > >> > > >> As a whole, I'm a bit surprized by your email. Things aren't black or > > >> white. > > >> > > >> Those criterias aren't up for discussion so that the discussion can > > happen > > >> on a much larger topic that includes them. > > >> AffCom role is to tend to our movement affiliates, this comes with > many > > >> duties and responsabilities amongst which helping organizations to get > > >> recognized, supporting them, helping them, remind them of their duties > > and > > >> sometime (rarely hopefully) challenge their statuts. > > >> > > >> Happy to further that discussion, > > >> > > >> Have a all great day > > >> > > >> Christophe > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > So to clarify, this isnt a discussion its been mandated to happen, > > just > > >> > like Wikimania was mandated behind closed doors... > > >> > > > >> > sorry for it sounding like a dummy spit here but its nice to hear > > after all > > >> > of the upraor and damage done over the last 18 months the community > > was > > >> > heard and their requests were well and truly ignored by the BoT and > > now > > >> > Affcom whom I thought was there to support the Affiliates not punish > > them > > >> > > > >> > On 23 August 2016 at 12:43, Salvador A <salvador1...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > I want to close the chapter of this discussion related to > > >> > > quantitative-qualitative criteria in order to call your attention > > to some > > >> > > consequences of this new criteria for existing affiliates. I want > > to be > > >> > > clear on this in order to avoid future missunderstandings. > > >> > > > > >> > > Romaine said that it's desirable to have already recognized > > affiliates to > > >> > > meet this criteria. Both AffCom and BoT want this, and it's would > be > > >> > unfair > > >> > > to require this criteria only for groups that want to get the > ThOrg > > and > > >> > > Chapter status and at the same time to have a lesser average of > work > > >> > among > > >> > > those that already are recognized as such. Consequently, *every > > ThOrg and > > >> > > Chapter must comply with this criteria in order to get and keep > > affiliate > > >> > > status. *The idea is keeping the affiliates moving forward and to > > avoid > > >> > to > > >> > > get them dormant. > > >> > > > > >> > > This criteria will be checked out during the annual review that > WMF > > staff > > >> > > makes of Chapters and ThOrgs status (yes, the same that make you > > eligible > > >> > > to go to WMCON in Berlin) in case an affiliate doesn't meet the > > >> > > requirementes it will be reported to AffCom who will decide in > > every case > > >> > > if a recomendation to Board of Trustees is needed. > > >> > > > > >> > > --- > > >> > > *Possible questions:* > > >> > > > > >> > > *Q1: My chapter/ThOrg exists since many years ago, could I loose > my > > >> > > recognition as chapter?* > > >> > > > > >> > > *A1:* Yes, if you don't meet the criteria and you don't repair the > > >> > > situation during some time after AffCom request, you can loose it. > > >> > > > > >> > > *Q2: How can I do to avoid this?* > > >> > > > > >> > > *A2:* Work hard, make activities, set goals and report. Ask for > > AffCom, > > >> > WMF > > >> > > or other affiliates help if is needed. > > >> > > > > >> > > *Q3: But there are some chapters that have already many years > > without > > >> > > activity and nothing had happened so far.* > > >> > > > > >> > > *A3:* AffCom is already working on it. > > >> > > > > >> > > --- > > >> > > If you have any other questions on that doesn't hesitate in doing > > it, I'm > > >> > > sure Carlos will be happy of answer them :P > > >> > > > > >> > > Regards! > > >> > > > > >> > > 2016-08-22 22:31 GMT-05:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Point Im trying to make is focus on the positives to achieve > what > > you > > >> > > > want, your path isnt necessarily be that which will help others, > > accept > > >> > > > that vague definitions is better than actual numbers to do that > > you > > >> > need > > >> > > to > > >> > > > assume good faith and trust that the vague will fair to > > challenges we > > >> > all > > >> > > > face in own circumstances number are hard and fast they cant > > always be > > >> > > fair > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On 23 August 2016 at 11:20, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> Gnangarra, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I agree with you about the vision. I think that where we see > > things > > >> > > >> differently may be in the discussion of how we achieve the > > vision. > > >> > > >> Individuals have a lot of freedom in the Wikimedia community, > but > > >> > > >> organizations exist in a complicated world with real money, > real > > laws, > > >> > > >> real > > >> > > >> people, and a variety of circumstances that can help or hinder > > >> > progress. > > >> > > >> We > > >> > > >> want to share the sum of human knowledge, and to do that > > effectively > > >> > > >> requires a coordinated effort. Wikimedia is an incredibly > > complicated > > >> > > >> collection of entities, of which affiliates are a part. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I am very mindful that real resources (time and money) are > > involved in > > >> > > >> Wikimedia, and I would like those resources to be used wisely, > > >> > > >> transparently, and fairly in service of the mission. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I need to depart thread so that I can focus on other projects, > > but I > > >> > > plan > > >> > > >> to return here in a week or two. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Pine > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > >> > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ma > > ilman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > >> > , > > >> > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsu > > bscribe> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > -- > > >> > > > GN. > > >> > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > >> > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > >> > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > Affiliates mailing list > > >> > > > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > *Salvador Alcántar* > > >> > > *@salvador_alc* > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ma > > ilman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsu > > bscribe> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > GN. > > >> > President Wikimedia Australia > > >> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > >> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Affiliates mailing list > > > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
