I am fundamentally dismayed to read the response that this is not a discussion. I am baffled. Shutting down discussion is rule #1 in NOT fostering community.
To create a one-way flow of communication with parties engaged enough to take the time to actively discuss concerns is a non-ideal approach to engagement on any level. I haven't heard anything untoward in this discussion. Except the dismissive responses by those who seem to be on the committee. If this was a for-profit organization this response might be more understandable but as Wikimedia is most definitely NOT this approach seems a real misstep. - Erika > On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:44 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I dont see how a dissenting voice would be a surprise, I suppose you could be > surprised at my choice of language (blunter than I normally use) or at my > expectations from Affcom but being here in Australia we are isolated we dont > get the opportunities like people in Europe and America to be part of the > discussions behind those closed doors. When changes happen we dont normally > hear about them but are expected to follow them. > > What I see is that Affcom has drifted from being a voice of the affiliates to > being just another bureaucracy which has resulted in exactly the same > response that caused affcom to be initially created back in 2012 with the > loose creation of a Latin America group, SE Asia group, Eastern Europe groups > being formed to give those chapters a voice they thought they had with > affcom. > > All we ever hear down here is the level of distrust and lack assumption of > good faith with more rules, more bureaucracy more power cabals. we make > rules to address things that might occur using language that shows a level of > distrust and badt faith . As a group we need to get back to trust and > assuming good faith. > > Choose language carefully, use wording to promote not put down, create > criteria thats boosts the affiliates we dont need to pull each other down to > make things better because we just happen to find it easy to make that choice > >> On 23 August 2016 at 14:46, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> wrote: >> Hi Gnangarra, >> >> This is not a discussion, and this is by design. >> >> As Carlos said, those are provisional criterias so that our movement can >> keep seeing new organizations blooming. But the discussion will not be only >> about those criterias, but on a much larger, and I believe more interesting >> and important, topic. >> >> As we're moving forward regarding the movement strategy process (more to >> come soon, it's only been 7 weeks since we announced that, and summer), it >> is key to have discussions about the organizations in general. How do we >> make them work as a whole? What values do we want Wikimedia organizations >> to live by? etc. And out of those discussions, a criteria discussion will >> come. >> >> But it seemed quite a waste of time and energy to first have a consultation >> about those provisional criterias and then another discussion about the >> strategy. >> >> That's for your point on the criterias. Now on the "Affcom whom I thought >> was there to support the Affiliates not punish them". Yes, AffCom support >> affiliates, but AffCom also has a duty to make sure that affiliates live by >> their engagements. >> >> One doesn't exclude the other, quite the opposite actually. >> >> As a whole, I'm a bit surprized by your email. Things aren't black or >> white. >> >> Those criterias aren't up for discussion so that the discussion can happen >> on a much larger topic that includes them. >> AffCom role is to tend to our movement affiliates, this comes with many >> duties and responsabilities amongst which helping organizations to get >> recognized, supporting them, helping them, remind them of their duties and >> sometime (rarely hopefully) challenge their statuts. >> >> Happy to further that discussion, >> >> Have a all great day >> >> Christophe >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > So to clarify, this isnt a discussion its been mandated to happen, just >> > like Wikimania was mandated behind closed doors... >> > >> > sorry for it sounding like a dummy spit here but its nice to hear after all >> > of the upraor and damage done over the last 18 months the community was >> > heard and their requests were well and truly ignored by the BoT and now >> > Affcom whom I thought was there to support the Affiliates not punish them >> > >> > On 23 August 2016 at 12:43, Salvador A <salvador1...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > I want to close the chapter of this discussion related to >> > > quantitative-qualitative criteria in order to call your attention to some >> > > consequences of this new criteria for existing affiliates. I want to be >> > > clear on this in order to avoid future missunderstandings. >> > > >> > > Romaine said that it's desirable to have already recognized affiliates to >> > > meet this criteria. Both AffCom and BoT want this, and it's would be >> > unfair >> > > to require this criteria only for groups that want to get the ThOrg and >> > > Chapter status and at the same time to have a lesser average of work >> > among >> > > those that already are recognized as such. Consequently, *every ThOrg and >> > > Chapter must comply with this criteria in order to get and keep affiliate >> > > status. *The idea is keeping the affiliates moving forward and to avoid >> > to >> > > get them dormant. >> > > >> > > This criteria will be checked out during the annual review that WMF staff >> > > makes of Chapters and ThOrgs status (yes, the same that make you eligible >> > > to go to WMCON in Berlin) in case an affiliate doesn't meet the >> > > requirementes it will be reported to AffCom who will decide in every case >> > > if a recomendation to Board of Trustees is needed. >> > > >> > > --- >> > > *Possible questions:* >> > > >> > > *Q1: My chapter/ThOrg exists since many years ago, could I loose my >> > > recognition as chapter?* >> > > >> > > *A1:* Yes, if you don't meet the criteria and you don't repair the >> > > situation during some time after AffCom request, you can loose it. >> > > >> > > *Q2: How can I do to avoid this?* >> > > >> > > *A2:* Work hard, make activities, set goals and report. Ask for AffCom, >> > WMF >> > > or other affiliates help if is needed. >> > > >> > > *Q3: But there are some chapters that have already many years without >> > > activity and nothing had happened so far.* >> > > >> > > *A3:* AffCom is already working on it. >> > > >> > > --- >> > > If you have any other questions on that doesn't hesitate in doing it, I'm >> > > sure Carlos will be happy of answer them :P >> > > >> > > Regards! >> > > >> > > 2016-08-22 22:31 GMT-05:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>: >> > > >> > > > Point Im trying to make is focus on the positives to achieve what you >> > > > want, your path isnt necessarily be that which will help others, accept >> > > > that vague definitions is better than actual numbers to do that you >> > need >> > > to >> > > > assume good faith and trust that the vague will fair to challenges we >> > all >> > > > face in own circumstances number are hard and fast they cant always be >> > > fair >> > > > >> > > > On 23 August 2016 at 11:20, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> Gnangarra, >> > > >> >> > > >> I agree with you about the vision. I think that where we see things >> > > >> differently may be in the discussion of how we achieve the vision. >> > > >> Individuals have a lot of freedom in the Wikimedia community, but >> > > >> organizations exist in a complicated world with real money, real laws, >> > > >> real >> > > >> people, and a variety of circumstances that can help or hinder >> > progress. >> > > >> We >> > > >> want to share the sum of human knowledge, and to do that effectively >> > > >> requires a coordinated effort. Wikimedia is an incredibly complicated >> > > >> collection of entities, of which affiliates are a part. >> > > >> >> > > >> I am very mindful that real resources (time and money) are involved in >> > > >> Wikimedia, and I would like those resources to be used wisely, >> > > >> transparently, and fairly in service of the mission. >> > > >> >> > > >> I need to depart thread so that I can focus on other projects, but I >> > > plan >> > > >> to return here in a week or two. >> > > >> >> > > >> Pine >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik >> > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> > , >> > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > GN. >> > > > President Wikimedia Australia >> > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra >> > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Affiliates mailing list >> > > > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > *Salvador Alcántar* >> > > *@salvador_alc* >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > GN. >> > President Wikimedia Australia >> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra >> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > GN. > President Wikimedia Australia > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > _______________________________________________ > Affiliates mailing list > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
