Hoi,
I have been involved in a translation project with professional translators
translating featured articles of the English Wikipedia. The choice for
featured articles was done because we expected that the content would not
be in dispute. We found different. Several of the translated articles were
not accepted.. one of them was about World War II.
I have also toyed with the idea of content that is not available in the
language of a Wikipedia (including English). Translation is one solution an
other solution is generating basic information from the data available at
Wikidata. The benefit is not only to our readers; they will at least be
informed up to a point and another benefit will be the quality of the
Wikipedia involved. One problem that will be fixed is the one of false
friends, when red links are linked to Wikidata, the information provided
will always be implicitly correct. Another possibility is to provide the
text of a sister Wikipedia.
We can do a better job by providing the sum of all knowledge that is
available to us.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 25 February 2018 at 15:16, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but this does not make sense. The core articles apply globally.
> There will although be articles in additions to a list of core articles,
> but I don't try to advocate any of those lists as the one and only list.
> Actually I have toyed with an idea of automatically create a list of core
> articles, and that would identify important articles no matter if they are
> from a big western language or a minority language.
>
> The main problem is NOT that minority languages should have articles about
> the major cities and important philosophers, *the main problem is that
> minor languages can't get started because they lack content*!
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:41 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cultural appropriation is something different, by "forcing" the contents
> in
> > a minority language we would actually be at risk of implementing a form
> of
> > "cultural colonialism" which is the opposite of a cultural appropriation.
> >
> > NOTE: I refer to "the Western" in both cultural and "Wikipedian" sense: I
> > mean cultures with a strong presence on the web plus developed and
> > flourishing Wikipedia communities.
> >
> > Helping minority languages with funds/workforce is not bad in my opinion,
> > but I think a bottom-up process must be followed, with the "bottom" being
> > as closer as possible to relevant linguistic/cultural communities. A
> > Wikipedia full of "what the Westerns think is important" in a minority
> > non-Western language would definitely fail project scopes.
> >
> > This kind of problem almost does not arise with minority language
> > associated to Western cultures since they share the same cultural
> > backgrounds: back to my previous example the cultural background of
> > Sicilian is substantially equal to Italian one. Still, as I already
> wrote,
> > wikis in minority languages should focus on a certain aspect of wiki
> scope:
> > Wiki has roughly two main scopes: 1) sharing knowledge in a certain
> > language 2) also preserving the cultural heritage associated with
> different
> > languages. For languages mainly spoken as first language the "sharing
> > knowledge" aspect is predominant, while the second should take precedence
> > in languages whose speakers are native speakers of a "bigger" language.
> >
> > Vito
> >
> > 2018-02-24 22:58 GMT+01:00 John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Seems like this is mostly about cultural ownership and appropriation.
> Not
> > > sure if it is possible to agree on this.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll reply to the most recent email just for laziness.
> > > >
> > > > I'm doubtful for a series of reasons, most of were already expressed
> > in a
> > > > better way by others:
> > > > *a remuneration in terms of quantity will weaken the quality of
> > > > translations unless there's a strong mechanism of quality
> verification
> > > > requiring a quantity of resources comparable to translations
> > themselves;
> > > > *articles are the result of a long process which reflects cultural
> > > identity
> > > > of different communities, I'm not confident with transferring them
> to a
> > > > different "weaker" cultures. My usage of "weaker" adjective only
> > focuses
> > > > about the strength of a cultural presence on the Internet;
> > > > *articles to be translated are at high risk of reflecting the
> cultural
> > > > identity (and biases) of the Western culture;
> > > > *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable
> > > > Wikipedians.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO some paid editing may be better exploited in order to digitalise
> > > texts
> > > > of unrepresented cultures (wikisource) or preserving their
> vocabularies
> > > > (wiktionary).
> > > >
> > > > Also those languages which are secondary for all their speakers
> should
> > be
> > > > dealt with in a different fashion. I, for one, am a native speaker of
> > > > specific variant of Sicilian, Sicilian is a secondary language to any
> > of
> > > > its speakers. Honestly, I'd find pointless to read the biography of
> > > > Leonardo da Vinci in Sicilian while I can find thousands of books
> about
> > > him
> > > > in Italian. Also I find this kind of translation creates a fake
> > > "literary"
> > > > language totally detached from reality: there's no "encaustic
> painting"
> > > in
> > > > Sicilian, still a Sicilian article about Leonardo will invent one.
> > > >
> > > > As a general principle we should always collect, rather than create,
> > > > knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > Vito
> > > >
> > > > 2018-02-24 16:30 GMT+01:00 John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > My reply can be read as a bit more harsh than intended, it was
> > merely a
> > > > > statement about my present experience about translators in general.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with lack of contributors (and translators) in a
> > > specialized
> > > > > area is that there is a small community, and within this community
> > some
> > > > > kind of selection is made. Each time a selection is repeated the
> > > > remaining
> > > > > group shrinks. Specialize the selection sufficiently many times and
> > > there
> > > > > will be no contributors (or translators) left. It is simply a game
> of
> > > > > probabilities. Thus, to make such a project work it must have a
> > > > > sufficiently broad scope for the articles. Articles about public
> > health
> > > > > services will probably work even for a pretty small language group,
> > but
> > > > > specialized medical articles might create a problem. But then you
> > find
> > > > > a retired
> > > > > orthopedic surgeon like Subas Chandra Rout…
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 4:04 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with John that it is very difficult to turn a translator
> > > into a
> > > > > new
> > > > > > editor. I also agree with Jean-Philippe that it is key to have
> > > > > involvement
> > > > > > of the local projects and preferable if they lead the efforts. Of
> > the
> > > > > > languages we worked in only one explicitly requested not to be
> > > > involved /
> > > > > > have translations from TWB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 7:59 AM, John Erling Blad <
> > jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You can turn it around; give added credits for translations
> from
> > > > small
> > > > > > > language projects and into the larger ones, that is a lot more
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > > than strictly translating from the larger language projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> > > > > > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the request for such projects should come from the
> > > > concerned
> > > > > > > > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in
> my
> > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jean-Philippe Béland
> > > > > > > > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <
> > > jeb...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat
> less
> > > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > > > > in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad
> idea,
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > translators should be able to chose for themselves.
> Articles
> > > > should
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie
> > vertical
> > > > > > > articles,
> > > > > > > > > as the number of editors that can handle those will be
> pretty
> > > > > small.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator
> into
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > > > > > editor!
> > > > > > > > > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <
> > > > > jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all
> > > > articles
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for
> > translation.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill
> the
> > > > > > project.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF
> made
> > > > > efforts
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > tool
> > > > > > > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific
> lists
> > of
> > > > > > > articles
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups.
> Would
> > > also
> > > > > > love
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of
> projects.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be
> pretty
> > > > > obvious.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with
> our
> > > > > partner
> > > > > > > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that
> > > > > languages
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >> which
> > > > > > > > > >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish,
> and
> > > > > Italian
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > > >> often already at least some content on many of the
> topics
> > in
> > > > > > > question.
> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert
> > > > Wikipedia.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >> languages in which we have little content there are
> often
> > > few
> > > > > > > > avaliable
> > > > > > > > > >> volunteers.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the
> > > chance
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > competing articles are pretty low.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this
> > > would
> > > > > > > require
> > > > > > > > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are
> > > taking
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the
> 70
> > > or
> > > > so
> > > > > > > > > languages
> > > > > > > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations
> > > undergo
> > > > a
> > > > > > > second
> > > > > > > > > >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain
> > tests
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > >> accepted.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good
> translators".
> > It
> > > > is
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at
> the
> > > > > > project?"
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <
> > > > jmh...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation
> > > project
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > >> started back in 2011:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all
> > > > > articles
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for
> > translation.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is
> present
> > on
> > > > EN
> > > > > > WP.
> > > > > > > > Thus
> > > > > > > > > >> we
> > > > > > > > > >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation
> the
> > > > leads
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> English articles.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF
> > made
> > > > > > efforts
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > tool
> > > > > > > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific
> lists
> > of
> > > > > > > articles
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups.
> Would
> > > also
> > > > > > love
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of
> projects.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with
> > our
> > > > > > partner
> > > > > > > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that
> > > > > languages
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >> which
> > > > > > > > > >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish,
> and
> > > > > Italian
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > > >> often already at least some content on many of the
> topics
> > in
> > > > > > > question.
> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert
> > > > Wikipedia.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >> languages in which we have little content there are
> often
> > > few
> > > > > > > > avaliable
> > > > > > > > > >> volunteers.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this
> > > would
> > > > > > > require
> > > > > > > > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are
> > > taking
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the
> 70
> > > or
> > > > so
> > > > > > > > > languages
> > > > > > > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations
> > > undergo
> > > > a
> > > > > > > second
> > > > > > > > > >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain
> > tests
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > >> accepted.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project
> for a
> > > > > couple
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >> years.
> > > > > > > > > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become
> Wikipedians
> > or
> > > > > learn
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like
> > > > TransSW001
> > > > > > > (one
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be
> translated
> > > > into
> > > > > > > > Content
> > > > > > > > > >> Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the
> > > user
> > > > > name
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >> password to the account.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over
> 1,000
> > > > leads
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for
> > > > translation.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > >> includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the
> > WHO
> > > > > > > Essential
> > > > > > > > > >> List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The
> > > efforts
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > >> resulted
> > > > > > > > > >> in more than 5 million works translated and integrated
> > into
> > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > >> Wikipedias. The coordinator has unfortunately moved on
> to
> > > his
> > > > > real
> > > > > > > job
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >> teaching high school students.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than
> before.
> > > The
> > > > > > > > > Wikipedian
> > > > > > > > > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has
> > > > basically
> > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > > > >> handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a
> > > > language
> > > > > > > spoken
> > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is
> > > that
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >> these topics this is the first and only information
> online
> > > > about
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > >> Google
> > > > > > > > > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language.
> > Our
> > > > > > > > partnerships
> > > > > > > > > >> with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to
> > translate
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > > >> There the students translate and than their translations
> > are
> > > > > > > reviewed
> > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > >> their profs before being posted. They translate in
> groups
> > > > using
> > > > > > > > hackpad
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> make it more social.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-)
> > > > > > > > > >> James
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad <
> > > > > > jeb...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more
> > > than
> > > > > 65k
> > > > > > > > > >> articles,
> > > > > > > > > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid
> > > > > translators?
> > > > > > > > There
> > > > > > > > > >> are
> > > > > > > > > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the
> > thousand
> > > > > > > articles
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > ten
> > > > > > > > > >> thousand
> > > > > > > > > >> > articles from the expanded list[2].
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about
> $0.01
> > > per
> > > > > word
> > > > > > > > > (about
> > > > > > > > > >> $1
> > > > > > > > > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those
> articles
> > > into
> > > > > > > another
> > > > > > > > > >> > language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors
> in
> > > > > > high-cost
> > > > > > > > > >> > countries. The pay would also have to be higher for
> > > > languages
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > lacks
> > > > > > > > > >> > good translation tools.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the
> > > > > > > communities,
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > >> > without a base set of articles it won't be possible to
> > > > build a
> > > > > > > > > >> community at
> > > > > > > > > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only
> > translating
> > > > > > > > > >> well-referenced
> > > > > > > > > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities
> could
> > be
> > > > > > > avoided.
> > > > > > > > > >> Perhaps
> > > > > > > > > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that
> would
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > > > help.
> > > > > > > > > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size,
> > but
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > >> > have to be full translations of the source article.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good
> > articles
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > >> projects
> > > > > > > > > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western
> World,
> > > so
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > >> lot
> > > > > > > > > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify
> > our
> > > > > > inherit
> > > > > > > > > bias?
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > [1]
> > > > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > > > > > > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have
> > > > > > > > > >> > [2]
> > > > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > > > > > > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded
> > > > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=
> > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > > > >> James Heilman
> > > > > > > > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> > > > > > > > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> > > > > > > > > >> i/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=
> > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
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> > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
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> > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > James Heilman
> > > > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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